I’ve been running a Masks campaign for the last few months. Something that has come up as an issue is that one of players has not managed to get an advancement the entire game.
We feel this has a lot to do with the fact that some archetypes can only get potential on a miss. He simply never rolls low due to luck. While this is an extreme case for sure, I do feel that there might be a better way.
Some Powered By The Apocalypse titles have been experimenting with getting XP when you do certain actions linked to your playbook. Just a thought.
My main issue with only using potential on a miss is that it only encourages players to roll alot, unlike highlighted stats, XP actions or other such options. It does lower the fear of failure, but nothing more specific that drives narrative.
For example, highlighted stats encourage players to go out of their comfort zone and XP actions drive archetype specific play.
How does everyone else feel?
He hasn’t even leveled up from end of session questions, taking powerful blows, comfort/support, rejecting others influence, and, playbook dependent, celebrating with teammates or opening up emotionally?
I don’t have the Masks rule in front of me, but I’m a big fan of experience on a miss, as used in Dungeon World. I think it can actively encourage people to use the stats they’re bad at sometimes. It also reinforces the idea that missing a roll in the game is a normal and expected thing, and should make things more interesting, not less.
As for rolling too well…not much anybody can do about that I guess.
To follow up on Adam’s points, let’s examine:
End of session questions: only one of them actually lets you mark potential, and that one you have to choose between potential or clearing a condition. Not great or reliable as a category.
Being comforted isn’t reliable either, since it’s outside your control. Also, I expect in a general case that you’d need comfort if things are going badly, and if you’re rolling well that’s not super likely. And again, you have to choose between potential and other options.
Reject influence is good, but again, you’re choosing between potential and other options.
Team moves are reliable potential sources for some playbooks, unreliable choice-things for others, and not a source at all for others.
So… yeah, apart from misses, there’s no universal, steady way of accumulating potential, which as an indicator of character growth is something that should by design be happening. Coupled with the lack of sufficient mechanics addressing this for several playbooks, yeah, that’s an issue.
For the record, he is using the Protege.
Their celebration move does give potential if they were an effective leader (or good teamate) so that’s a bit on him, looking it over. His character isn’t much for celebration and is quick to his lab for analysis so he doesn’t trigger that move enough. So, mostly on him there, yeah.
The end of session thing is his choices. I forgot you can potential from that. But, he has continously been getting farther from the team so that could be why. It’s actually shaping up to be a big source of drama, in a good way.
I have been too lax on pushing influence. That’s on me. But he does normally accept influence when I push it.
For whatever reason, no one has comforted him. Not sure why. It actually comes up shockingly rare in our game.
Mainly, though, it just feels unbalanced in compairson to the outsider who is chugging down potential constantly. It’s very easy for that playbook because it has a move that rewards expected behavior.
I mean potential on a miss could stay to encourage risky behavior, but some more avenues might be nice.
Not that I think he won’t see this post, or that I think he doesn’t have anything better to do, but this is definitely something to bring up to Brendan Conway.
Well, from a fictional perspective, the Outsider is learning a hell of a lot more about their place in the world than the Protege!
The Outsider is all about asking others for their opinions, how to fit in better, and how to do things the normal teen way. They’re actively changing!
If the Protege is working in the lab all night, not leading the team, and believing what everyone tells them about themself, they’re in many ways a child. And children aren’t getting access to the grownup moves anytime soon.
I’d give a player a levelup (if everyone is on their second, let them jump to their first) but >if they’re not engaging with mechanics< , you can't imagine highlighting Superior is going to help them.
The reason stat highlights work is because in most PBTA systems, your stats are static. If someone highlights your Vampire’s volatile, you’re going to go into awkward situations. In Masks, if someone highlights your Savior, you could move your superior from a penalty to a bonus relatively easily (especially if you’re the Legacy).
It sounds like, instead of creating a new system, you and your players need to use the tools you have!
Well, I’m really pushing more for XP actions given to the playbook by default than stat highlights, honestly. Maybe mixed with XP on a miss.
But you’re not wrong on his character not engaging with the mechanics.
I run from xp from marked atributes. I really hate that from Apocalypse World.
You either got a low atribute and risk a lot, or got your main atribute and can get more than one advance in a single scene.
Marking factions (Urban Shadows) or anything like that is interesting in that you focus the action, but something you can abuse it easily.
On the other hand, marking with a fail get 2 advantages.
First, it encourages rolling, aye, but in fact you only roll when the fiction is advancing, so this is not a problem.
Second, it rewards those more unlucky. Lucky ones advance the fiction on their benefict. Unlucky ones at least get some xp.
Great discussion! Nicholas Arroyo, I’m sorry to hear that that player has not gotten an advancement for the entire game! I think there’s definitely an element of randomness—I’m surprised to hear that he really hasn’t rolled many misses, period, but outliers are bound to happen. That said, I want to ask—is this player usually rolling with high Labels? Low Labels? Is the player generally only trying the moves that they’re getting solid bonuses for? I especially find it interesting that you said there’s very little comforting or supporting going on in the game, overall—I think that’s one of the key gears in helping to inject more potential into the system, and it sounds like it’s not spinning at your table.
James Etheridge does a great breakdown of many of the ways you can earn potential, and highlights something I really wanted to be important in the design—it’s often your choice whether to gain potential or not. Between rejecting influence, opening up when being comforted and supported, the end of session moves, even the basic choice to aim at moves with low Labels—you get some control over how important potential is to you, and you might ultimately shy away from it. I think that’s okay! If you want to grow up as fast as you can, then choose potential every single time you can—and you’re probably going to hold conditions for longer, risk other people’s Influence smacking you, risk lots of misses, and so on. If you want to play it safe, get rid of conditions, accept other people’s opinions of you as your own self-image, and so on, then you absolutely can—and you probably aren’t going to grow up as fast.
It sounds to me like the Outsider is actually angling for potential as much as possible (albeit, with a playbook move) while the Protege is often choosing alternative options. The Protege, for example, has their own playbook specific means of generating more potential, a move that can generate potential on a 10+, and obviously on a miss, as well—Fireside Chat. You can always ask the player if they want to swap out Fireside Chat with another move to give them another means to mark potential.
If you really want to make sure that the Protege gets an advancement and the player is pretty intent not to go with other routes, you can always do something like fast forward time and give all the PCs another advancement, or just give an advancement at the end of the session—it’s your game!
Let me know what you think, and what ultimately happens! Hope this helps!
I have seen it in other pbta games that reward xp for failure too. There is no such thing as not rolling failures because of luck. Probabilities will always level things out.
It is because the players do not roll enough, and do not roll enough on their low stats.
As GM you have to draw them out to be more active, which can be difficult because some players enjoy listening just as much as doing.
The solution is
1) Tell you players why they are not advancing. It has nothing to do with luck, it is because of inactivity, and not using their low stats. They should be more active.
2) As GM you should target the introverted players with more soft moves so that they get more spotlight and are forced to roll more.
In the end it is the GM’s responsibility to give everybody spotlight. If you do not make an effort, the more extroverted players will do most of the stuff, roll more, and therefore advance faster than the others.