Need help for English translation of a core concept
We’re promoting Dilemma ( #dilemmarpg ) with a series of initiatives (more on that in the next weeks), and we have a GREAT tagline in Italian, thanks to Claudia Cangini (one of the great minds behind Italian publisher www.narrattiva.it ):
Dilemma: Lasciati Segnare
Now, we do not know how to best translate it in English.
Literally, it would be “let yourself be tagged”, or “get tagged” (to Tag is a game term, it’s one of the most defining moments of the game!).
I thought about translating it with “Let Me Tag You”, but I don’t know if it sounds appealing to a real native speaker… it sounds “ugly” to me. Is it me?
Italian verb “segnare” also mean “to leave a mark”, but the English verb sounds closer to “brand” rather than “leave a lasting impression on someone’s soul” (again: is it me?).
Another option could be to leave it in Italian to make people curious about its meaning… problem is, its correct pronunciation is very difficult for native English speakers, it includes not one but two different sounds that do not exist in English!
It’s not like “dolce vita”, that almost every English speaker can get right at the first or second try.
(BTW: Dilemma has ended the closed playtest phase, now we’re going into “blind playtest” phase… there will be a “recruitment” post soon for anyone interested. ^_- )
Alexandra Zanasi, who’s perfectly bilingual in English and Italian, maybe can help me.
Thanks in advance to anyone willing to help! ^_^
sub/
sub and thinking 😉
English phrases like this tend to be less voluntary:
– You Will Be Marked
– It Will Change You
Can we have more context? How does the game involve being marked or branded?
P.S. it’s not pronounced “Lask-ee-ah-tee Seg-nar-ay”?
Or “Lass-chee-ah-tee”?
Hi, Jonathan Walton!
Here’s some context: main characters (think of them as “PCs”) in the game have supernatural powers and are able to “push” other characters (think of them as “main NPCs”) into doing or not doing certain actions.
At the same time, they leave a mark (so to speak) on their soul, and at the same time bond with them.
the Italian tagline sound very much like an invitation to receive something, as in “allow me to Tag you” or “let me in”. It also has a subtext of intimacy, which is very appropriate to the game.
Cool. I’ll think on it.
About pronunciation: it’s like this.
Lasciati:
http://it.forvo.com/word/lascia/ (click on the map, in the middle of Italy, ignore the Naples variant ^_- ) + “tee” or “tea” at the end.
Segnare: http://it.forvo.com/word/segnare/#it
(also, Meguey Baker who’s learning some Italian ^_- )
sub!
The humble suggestion: let them tag you? It could leave an ambiguity on them being Ali or Chiavi.
Fabio Succi Cimentini : I like it very much. ^_^
It’s good to let people ask who these “them” are!
Side note: In the game, it’s always the Wings (Ali) who tags the Keys (Chiavi). But it doesn’t detract from the good match between your translation, the original meaning, and the subtext of game’s mechanics! ^_^
I’m not calling it final, I’d like to hear some other ideas and comment from native speakers, but this is DEFINITELY ion the good side! ^_^
“Tag” is tough because of the game of tag and the modern use of tag to mean spraypainting something like a gang sign.
“Brand” is tough because of the commercial use of branding to mean IP and advertising.
“Mark” is okay, but less of a strong term. Somewhat generic.
A more intimate term is “Touch,” as in “Let Yourself Be Touched,” but it could be a bit squeamish.
Still pondering.
“Let Them Touch You” is both somewhat creepy and evocative, if that’s the vibe you want.
If we can find a good verb, I’ll change it in the final game mechanic, too.
It started from the “tagging” mechanics of Joe Mcdaldno’s Monsterhearts, then it took a different direction but the verb stayed.
“to touch” is maybe a little bit… generic. A touch doesn’t leave anything on you.
Think of a brush stroke: it touches you, and it leaves you a mark. It doesn’t hurt you, but it leaves a trace on your skin.
(I’ll go offline until tomorrow, it’s 7 p.m. here.)
Ah, well Monsterhearts uses “strings” which are tied to you or entangle you. Hmm…
Tag works, because even in the context of graffiti tagging, it is the act of putting your mark on something.
I think “Mark” is appropriate here, but the phrasing needs to imply a sense of greatness. I’d also step it up to something more grandiose for the American audience, so how about:
Dilemma: Leave Your Mark on the World.
Or, if you want something a little less out there, you could try “Leave your Mark,” or “Make your Mark.”
It sounds like subtlety is important to this game, so I actually think a somewhat-ambigous term like “mark” fits. An American will see that and think “Mark what? How?” Then, they’re hooked.
“Let’s play tag.” “Tag. You’re it.”
I like “let me in”
One thing that might help is if we knew the active role in the situation: will the players be the ones being tagged or tagging , or both?
Options for being tagged might be:
“Be touched”
“Move me”
“Get caught”
Options for tagging might be:
“I got you”
“Make your mark”
Thanks to all of you. All of this is extremely useful to us! ^_^
Ed Gibbs: I see your point. However, the game doesn’t have much aggressive undertones, it’s about human relationships of all kinds. “Mark” could be the right word we were looking for!
Meguey Baker : “let me in” is the core concept of the Italian tagline, it’s adorable. ^_^
In the game, there is a “special player” who has three “Key Characters” who get tagged by the Wing Characters (one for each other player).
Since each “booklet” for the Wings has a color’s name, we could try something along the lines of “Let The Color In”, maybe.
What do you think about this?
Is there any English word about “being colored” or something similar?
Thanks again, we’re learning a lot and we can’t wait to show you the finished game and play it with you! ^_^
There is cultural stuff in the US around “being colored”, as that is slang from 60 years ago for being a person of color. Maybe “Let the light in” ? Or “let the colors in”?
For an American audience “flavored” might work better than “colored” for the reasons Meguey Baker mentions. Flavored is politically neutral with mostly the same deeper meaning.
Of the options presented so far for the main discussion I like “mark” best. Another possibility might be “anoint,” which will carry religious/supernatural overtones.
Manuela Soriani I’m not sure what kind of game this is, but using the word “paint” as a verb may work. “Paint the World.” “Paint Your Soul.” “Paint the Darkness.” Something like that.
“Flavored” is a bit out of the context of the game… maybe next game! ^_^
“Paint your soul” is very good, but lacks the “please allow me” undertone. Paint is a verb in the “to keep” list, however!
“Anoint” is quite an uncommon word, and is too much on the religious side. The Wings can be a blessing to the Key’s lives, but they can also wreck their life (it’s a game about having power over someone else, I’ve seen a lot of good endings but also some horrible ones. Think Danielle Lewon’s Kagematsu when the Ronin dies… only, worse).
So far the best seem to be somewhere here:
– “Let the light in”
– “Let the colors in”
– “Let them tag you”
– “Let them mark you”
– “Let them paint you”
Also, thanks for pointing me out the “colored” second meaning. Wings are colored red, orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo and violet… in context, I think there will be no chance to mistake any of these as “racial tracts”, but I’ll keep an extra eye on the writing of the manual.
I don’t think a Native could be offended if offered to play a Red Wing (who has powers over peace and ostility) or a Chinese person offered a Yellow Wing (who has power over sharing or getting material goods)… or is it?
Perhaps turn it around in English? “Tag me”, “mark me”, or “paint me” might have more volition and invitation without sounding too intimate.
But the game is all about being intimate, in a certain way! (I have tried it!)
Mattia, obviously I’m not a native speaker… But tag doesn’t really sound right, to me. Mark is much more in tune with the game already…
Otherwise… What about going a bit Phill Collins and using something about showing the “true colours”? It should mean something like your most personal side… So maybe
Dilemma – let me see your true colours?
I have the impression that if you use colours, plural form, you should be able to avoid the racial implications, but I’d ask somebody else over there.
I agree with Alberto Muti about the plural. I have a different question though; why do you need this tag line? It feels a bit like you are trying to solve a branding or marketing issue, not a game design or naming issue. What role does this phrase serve? Is it a phrase used in the game? Could cover art convey the concept instead?
Just the name – Dilemma – is pretty evocative. It’s like Fiasco in that it perfectly conveys a concept.
Hi Meguey Baker!
First of all, thanks to all of you!
I’m answering with Mattia Bulgarelli (co- author with me and Marco Andreetto) on my side!
Yes, it IS a marketing/branding issue, in the meaning we need some way to make the game be easily remembered before you even play the game. ^_^
We want to make people curious to try it… we’re not modest enough to think they won’t remember it after playing. ^– Our testers all have strong, fond memories of the game, we’re quite proud of it so far. ^^
Now we’ll have to write a good, clear manual to make sure that people play it as it supposed to be played.
Back on topic: we feel the need of a tagline to pair with the name, beacuse the game is not directly related to some kind of fiction or mithology, as opposed as Vincent Baker’s Apocalypse World (which title sums up perfectly what the game’s about) or Joe Mcdaldno’s MonsterHearts and Michael Sands’s Monster Of The Week (which have a good amount of TV series you can use as examples).
Anyway, we’re getting closer and closer, we need to check with Marco Andreetto and Claudia Cangini.
Interesting. I have a strong reaction to the name without the tagline – “What is this? What’s the Dilemma?” and a less strong reaction the the name and tagline. With the name you raise a question. With the tagline you answer it by some degree, and it’s less curious and mysterious. To be quite frank, I don’t think you need to concern yourself with an explanatory tagline. Dilemma is like Fiasco – an evocative word that makes one want to know more.
I am looking forward to seeing this game, and you know I am a fan of your work Manuela Soriani, I would encourage you to consider other ways to convey through the cover what you want to convey with a tagline. Or maybe step back from this tagline and see if there is one that emerges from the playtesting and development that has less difficulty in translation. I wish I had played it already and could be better help!
A side point:
“Now we’ll have to write a good, clear manual…”
Yes, do that. I think you can and I think it will be done well.
“…to make sure that people play it as it supposed to be played.”
For your sanity, don’t wed yourself to this idea. Do the first part knowing that people will play your beautiful game wrong in ten different ways. There is nothing you can do to ensure that everyone plays it as you intended it to be played. They will have fun or not and write about it or not and do everything just as you hoped and planned and envisioned or not. Trust me, it will give you stomach aches if you try to write a maual so perfect as to ensure that no-one plays it “wrong”. Also, it won’t be as beautiful and inviting a book if you aim for that degree of control.
Thanks Meguey Baker in equal parts for your trust, your love and your advice. ^_^
We’ll not bang your heads on the wall about players making house rules and personal calls on rules, but we’ll try our best to convey the mood the game is supposed to have.
Blind tests are starting very soon, so we’ll know about that too and make changes if the idea is not clear.
Of course we’ll keep you posted about this second development phase, and, with your permission, we’ll post some “teasers”, too, in this Community. ^_^
Sorry it took me so long to answer!
I’ll be brief has a lot has already been said 🙂
I think you should avoid the word “tag”, it just makes me think of a game, and something that’s passed on ( tag your it ! ) .
I think I agree with Meg. Just the world Dilemma is enough, but if you want a to keep the tagline let it come from the game, it doesn’t have to be a litteral translation of the italian one! Sorry I wasn’t very helpful 😉