Need some insight on something.

Need some insight on something.

Need some insight on something. 

On more than one occasion a player who is rolling+trust to interfere with a fellow player has expressed a concern with the mechanic. Rolling+Trust to help someone, gather resources or hit the streets seems great, but when it comes to that interfere, something is jarring.

“I don’t trust this guy’s faction, so why am I hindered in trying to resist their moves?” It’s a valid question. When I first designed this section I meant Trust to be how much you and a faction’s member trust one another and how much you understand the other. I think the wording of Trust is misleading and leads a player to interpret this as their character’s Trust in a faction solely.

So, how do I fix this? Do I simply change the naming of the system to something like Affiliation or Rapport or Kinship? Or do we change the way Interfere works. I’ve had it suggested that when you Interfere with a player, you invert your score. For example, if you’re Trust in Wild was -2 and you were Interfering with a Fae, it would change to a +2 for these purposes but remain a negative number when rolling Help or the other Faction moves. This may work, but I feel like adding in a negative/positive switch-up like this is going to confuse players, especially the less rules-intrigued ones. Less is more after all.

Any input would be appreciated. I’d rather make a change with other points of view considered. Thank you.

27 thoughts on “Need some insight on something.”

  3. I’d recommend changing the way interfering works even more substantially. Interfering is just a basic move, same as any of the others, as easily redesigned or even dropped.

    Here’s something I’d be tempted to do: add a little section to every move that says “if someone wants to interfere with you, they must [do this]. If they can and do, you take -2 to the roll.”

  5. As I just mentioned to Andrew Medeiros, there only a few times this becomes an issue ….. well, probably every pvp time. So adding special interfere /trust rules to unleash and maybe take a chance could fix most of this.

    Overall though, I don’t mind a name switch on trust either as well as a slightly more elaborate description to better give us an idea of the mechanic.

  6. Another interesting idea would be to use the target’s trust score for your faction when interfering. After all, if they trust you more it makes it so much easier to meddle.

  7. That is a fascinating idea, I would never have thought of that.

    I have two initial concerns though.

    One: accommodating for the interference of each move. How do I encompass ways for someone to interfere with Take A Chance that will cover so many applications that the move itself covers?

    Two: It might be restrictive. When a player asks to interfere, I get to ask what do you do? And fiction spouts forth from the player. If they player simply looks at the move, points at the interfere requirement and says “I do that!”, it might become less evocative.

    Maybe I’m being way too pessimistic though. Has anyone ever tried something like that before? Gah! I hate my own brain sometimes.

  8. Aaron Friesen, That was my initial design on Trust/Interfere. It might get a little confusing people are always asking what the scores on someone else’s sheet is, but given how infrequent Interfere can sometimes become, it may not be as big a hurdle as I feared.

  9. I think Aaron Friesen has a great point though. Say in my last night fight against a vamp as a hunter. I automatically have less trust in his faction, so I am less likely mentally to not come out swinging. He has more Trust with Mortals, so he is thinking, “what is this crazy mortal doing?”

  10. Andrew Medeiros Oh don’t sweat it. If it doesn’t work for your particular needs, it doesn’t work. My larger point is that “when you interfere with someone, roll+Hx” is just a move, no more necessary than, and as easily changed or done away with as, “when you seize by force, roll+hard.”

  11. When you meddle in a PCs affairs, roll+their trust in your faction. On a hit, you may give them +1 or -2 forward, as fits your meddling. On a 7-9 you face fallout from their action.

    When you resist another’s direct influence against you, whether violent intent or social pressure, you may decrease your trust in their faction by 1. If you do, they take -2 forward on their roll. If they are an MC character, their action succeeds or fails at MC discretion, but you take +1 forward against them. 

  12. You have a good point Vincent Baker, it is as malleable as the other basic moves and I shouldn’t be afraid to muck with it like I do the others. Advice from the designer of my favourite game will never go unnoticed or unused, believe me!

    I am in a session tonight and I think asking the group on some insights as well may be helpful too.

  15. Aaron and I have been talking about this on IM and I thought it wise to share what we’ve come up with. Using the “When you resist another’s direct influence against you” move he suggested, you drop trust like he indicated and if you reach -4 as in AW you reset to -1 but instead of marking XP you mark Corruption. XP would still be rewarded for reseting from +4 to +1

    Also, thinking of adding in a new facet to Debts which allow you to “Interfere” with a player when they are taking action against someone else. So there are two very different ways to Hinder fellow players dependent on who they are trying to affect.

    What do you think?

  16. I would think about your session end move then as it says give a point, which I am taking as a – or +. If so, there is no way for me to want to be honest that say in this session, I should give a negative to a faction. Before there was, because I knew I was getting an xp for my honesty.

  17. Really? I chase after Corruption like a corgi after a cheese slice. Funky.

    Then again, now that it’s really easy to lose trust in a faction, perhaps it’d be prudent to just make the End of Session move to say “Pick one faction you trust or know better. Gain +1trust in that faction.”

  18. Yeah totally. The end of session move will change regardless of what we decide on for the Help Interfere set-up. So don’t sweat what you see there, cause it will change.

  20. You’re suppose to worry about that. 🙂 But I’ve not seen anyone get close yet, and even if you do there are advances that let you come back from the brink. I can’t imagine it ever happening without a player wanting it to. I did my best to ensure corruption is always a choice.

  21. I guess I don’t think about it as “Lose my character to NPC status” so much as “Give my character over to NPC status.” I swear, every time I take a corruption advance I eye that choice like “..hmmm, this time?”

  25. I’m intrigued by what the suggestions are going to be, tonight. I quite like the +Corruption at a negative reset, and a +XP at a positive reset in Trust (or whatever that’s going to become – I lean towards Rapport).

    We might actually get my Immortal connected to some other players tonight! Won’t that be fun?!

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