What do people think of this Move?
Nine Tales
Whenever you tell the complete and total truth, without exaggeration, embellishment, or omissions, give anyone listening to you a String against you.
Yes, it’s meant to be negative. I’m still working on my Kitsune and Tengu Skins, but am trying to make them more of a metaphor for some aspect of teenage life as people have suggested. The Kitsune has become the compulsive liar. They’re the kid who, for whatever reason, simply can not tell the truth even if their life depends on it.
I was trying to find a way to encourage that kind of behaviour and really drive home that this is a compulsion, not a choice on the Kitsune’s part. I’m pretty happy with the above move and just wanted to get some feedback. Nine Tales would, of course, be a mandatory move (one that’s already chosen for the Skin). Thoughts?
Maybe add a counterpart: if they don’t believe your story, gain one String on the first person who manifests unbelief.
Without counterpart, you “just have” to lie permanently, as you say it’s a compulsion.
With a counterpart, it explains why you lie (putting distance with the supernatural part of your skin and coming back to what it can be, from a human behaviour side, like compulsive liar): because nobody trust your story even when you’re honest, but you can try, you have the choice, your teenager can “grow up”
Thanks for the feedback Kalysto de la vacuité . But that’s kind of the whole point.
There is no real upside to being a compulsive liar. The person doesn’t lie when it’s convenient, for altruistic reasons, or even for any kind of personal gain. It’s something they are compelled to do, even when doing so really hurts them and the people around them. I want the move to reflect that.
I obviously can’t force the person playing the Kitsune to continually lie. I also don’t really want to dictate how other characters (both PCs and NPCs) react or respond to the Kitsune’s statements (though I realize the Kitsune giving away a String signals when they are telling the truth).
What I can do is mechanically encourage the Kitsune to lie by making not lying mechanically painful.
So nothing need to be changed I suppose ^^
But that’s the kind of question I had when you last asked for comments on Tengu and Kitsune: what was the “human theme” behind, the thing that spring to my mind when I see dark side and sexual move first and that is completed by the skin’s other moves
I am certainly not trying to shut you down, Kalysto de la vacuité. I sincerely appreciate your feedback. Maybe this is a case of me being too close to my babies to see their flaws and kill them. I don’t know.
After the last time I asked for feedback on my Skins, I went back and really thought about the “human theme” behind them. The better Skins say something about being a teenager and merely use the monster trappings as a metaphor or to highlight that aspect.
I’ve decided that The Kitsune is going to be (surprise surprise) the compulsive liar. They are that kid who, for whatever reason, simply can not be honest. Maybe they are lying because they have a serious mental illness. (Side note: Kitsunetsuki, being possessed by a fox spirit, was a common diagnosis for mental illness in Japan until the early 20th century.) Maybe they are just doing it for attention. Maybe they feel inadequate, or inferior and so lie to fit in with their peers. Or maybe they have a bad (or even abusive) home life that they can’t deal with, and are lying to protect themselves. I don’t want to make that choice for the player, though the Origins available will hint at these possible options.
As I said in my initial response, I’m looking to create a move that simply says “You lie. All the time. It’s not something you can control; it’s something to have to do.” Having the player give away Strings to anyone they tell the truth to was, I thought, a good way to encourage the player to constantly lie. You don’t want other characters to have Strings on you, so you’ll probably avoid doing things that give them out. Which, in this case, is telling the truth.
It’s similar to The Ghoul’s “The Hunger” move. The Ghoul is driven to pursue something, but they are not really in control of that drive like a “normal” person is. They are an addict, and have to constantly fight to keep that addiction in check. But when they _do_give in, the strength of that addiction gives them power, but only if they disregard anything and everything except that addiction. As a result, giving into that addiction may get you short term benefits, but almost always causes long term problems. It’s a downward spiral.
The Hunger is both a carrot and a stick towards reinforcing a specific type of behavior in the Ghoul. Perhaps I am being too harsh by only making the Kitsune’s move a stick. Maybe I do need to give it some kind of small benefit, as you suggest Kalysto de la vacuité . I don’t want to just copy the Ghoul’s move. I also don’t want to dictate if the target of the Kitsune’s lie believes them or not. Nor do I want to encroach on the space of the Turn Someone On or Manipulate an NPC move.
I’d be more than happy to hear if people have any suggestions, especially you, Kalysto de la vacuité . 🙂
I know the protective feeling ^^. I also made skins (in French) and without comments from the small French community, I can just make them evolve with time and change in my own point of view (change in wording, in relative efficiency, and trying to not emprison myself in one kind of way to “codify” my skins)
So, compulsive liar… good thing.
I can’t agree on “You don’t want other characters to have Strings on you”. Even if you can see it as a liability at first, if people have strings on you they will use them, on their moves on you, on your moves on them, propose experience to you : they will include you in the story more easily, as a string opens possibility.
So, a move that say, “everybody listening to me telling the full truth gains a string on me automatically” is, for me, a way of being very present on the screen and it’s convenient because you use it when you want, and you have no risk per se: if you use it, you know what you get.
That’s why I suggested a counterpart. You tell the truth, you expect something, but it can turn wrong (like a 7-9 on the dices) and you get something else because the other side has a choice to make: believe me this time or not.
Did you plan to use a Condition like “trustful of me”. Because I think things can/should be different for people who already trust you and those who don’t
Other idea: maybe it’s better to incite lies, and not forbid truth
-If you lie to someone who already trust you (Condition) and he believes what you say: you gains xxx and he gains xxx (certainly including a string/xp exchange). If he don’t believe you he lose the Condition and you gain xxx on him
-When you’re telling beautiful lies you absolutely don’t think, gain +1 for turning on or manipulating npc
What do you plan for Dark side: expose the lies of everybody else (“look, I’m not the only one lying”) or become the full liar (“you speak no truth and don’t wan’t to be trusted cause you know you can’t be honest for a long time” )
There can surely be a “if you’re telling the full truth, those who believe you gain the Condition “trustful (naïve?)”. If nobody believes you, turn you Dark side on.”
I hear what you’re saying about characters having Strings on you not being totally bad.
Other people have pointed out that characters having Strings on you means you will get more screen time, as the other players will want to use the Strings they have on you, meaning they’ll find ways to draw you into the scene. It also means they can can frequently offer you XP to do things. So smart players will realize that giving away Strings is not all bad.
But other people having Strings on you still allows them to mess with you (apply Conditions, make their rolls better, make your rolls worse, etc.), so it’s not exactly a good thing either.
I’ve thought about granting the Kitsune a +1 bonus to certain rolls when they are lying. However that feels kind of flat to me, and I was trying to do something other than just granting a mechanical bonus.
Interacting with a specific Condition the target has (like Gullible or Naive) is also another possibility. My issue with that is other character can interact with the Condition. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, but giving a character the Condition Naive, says more about them than it does about the Kitsune.
Maybe I need to take a hard look at the Kitsune’s moves and put a limit on them. Like the Vampire’s Hypnotic move, make many of them not work if your target has a String on you. That would make telling the truth even more unattractive for the Kitsune.