I’m continuing revisions, currently working through some minor changes and clarifications for the basic moves.
Here’s the new version of Manipulate Someone (it’s not very different):
—
This move is used when you want someone to do something for you. You’ll need a good reason for them to do it, and what counts as a good reason depends on what you are asking for and your relationship with them.
For friends and allies, you might just need to ask. For witnesses to a monster attack, you could tell them you are with the police, or just offer them some cash for answering your questions.
Once you have given them a reason, tell them what you want them to do and roll +Charm.
For a normal person:
– If you get 10+, then they’ll do it for the reason you gave them, or—if you asked too much—they’ll tell you what, if anything, it would take for them to do it.
– On a 7-9, they’ll do it, but only if you do something for them right now to show that you mean it.
– On a miss, your approach is completely wrong: you offend or anger the target.
For another hunter:
– On a 10+ they mark experience and get +1 forward if they do what you ask.
– On a 7-9, they mark experience if they do what you ask.
– On a miss, it’s up to that hunter to decide how badly you offend or annoy them. They mark experience if they do not do what you asked.
—
I’ve also changed the advanced Manipulate Someone to just make someone into an ally for the current mystery by default, although they can still be a permanent ally if you do enough for them.
But it still could be gamed by players, as the original version. Not yours, not mine, of course of course, but by “playas”. Who figure out that manipulating each other is a pretty good source of XP? In most cases that won’t matter, but the temptation might be there to use “Manipulate” on another Hunter much more frequently. If that is intended, fine.
As an alternative which springs to my mind: for the 10+: “they mark experience OR get +1 forward if they do what you ask (their choice)”, and for the 7-9 “they get +1 forward”?
For me, manipulating someone only really counts when you’re trying to get them to do something they are not already inclined to do. I’d lean on that requirement heavily for PvP manipulations.
Fred Hicks has it. It’s not a manipulate move if the target already wants to do it, or doesn’t care one way or the other.
Worth working that clearly into the triggers?
Yes, I think it is.
This made me realize that I never had this happen at any of my tables, neither facetoface nor over at rpggeek.com – as a Keeper, I never really put emphasis on that aspect of the move, but the reference sheets are there, right?
People much preferred in all these cases to work out disagreements in non-mechanics-supported conversation. How common was it in your games that people actually went to the dice?
It’s interesting that this is a break from standard systems in MotW, in that you usually only go up against the Keeper in your moves/rolls, who never rolls by default. In other systems this would probably be a contested roll, or you would at least factor in the “willpower” of the PC target. Hmm.
It’s not common, but it certainly has happened in games I’ve played enough that I felt it needed to be addressed.
As to versus rolls, they don’t belong here. Instead, there’s an incentive to play along and that’s really where (player) willpower comes in.
My call on Manipulate Someone was that it had to be plausible that what you were offering could inspire what you were asking for, in context. “Give me the nuclear launch codes and I’ll be your best friend” wouldn’t even get a roll.
The revision as written seems to muddy 10+ being a better result than 7-9. 7-9’s result doesn’t vary based on how outrageous the request is and there’s something the player can do right now to get what they want. With 10 and an outrageous request there could be nothing the player could do right now to get what they want.
Thanks for the comment, Zed Lopez. In my mind, all that stuff applies even more for a 7-9 but obviously that’s not in the written version!
Updated version:
For a normal person:
* If you get 10+, then they’ll do it for the reason you gave them. If you asked too much, they’ll tell you, if anything, the minimum it would take for them to do it.
* On a 7-9, they’ll do it, but only if you do something for them right now to show that you mean it. If you asked too much, they’ll tell you what, if anything, it would take for them to do it.
* On a miss, your approach is completely wrong: you offend or anger the target.
We’ve revised the wording a little more, but the gist remains the same in the final version:
Manipulate Someone
This move is used when you want someone to do something for you and they don’t want to do it. You’ll need a good reason for them to do what you’re asking. What counts as a good reason depends on what you are asking for and your relationship with them.
For friends and allies, you might just need to ask. For witnesses to a monster attack, you could tell them you are with the police, or just offer them some cash for answering your questions.
Once you have given them a reason, tell them what you want them to do and roll +Charm.
For a normal person:
* If you get 10+, then they’ll do it for the reason you gave them. If you asked too much, they’ll tell you the minimum it would take for them to do it (or if there’s no way they’d do it).
* On a 7-9, they’ll do it, but only if you do something for them right now to show that you mean it. If you asked too much, they’ll tell you what, if anything, it would take for them to do it.
* On a miss, your approach is completely wrong: you offend or anger the target.
For another hunter:
* On a 10+, if they do what you ask they mark experience and get +1 forward.
* On a 7-9, they mark experience if they do what you ask.
* On a miss, it’s up to that hunter to decide how badly you offend or annoy them. They mark experience if they decide not to do what you asked.