Given its status a staple of wrestling stipulation matches, I’m trying to figure out how a Ladder Match would work in WWWRPG. I’m torn between two opinions.
The first is that, despite, the ladder its really just a relatively “normal” match and doesn’t require its own special stipulation moves. Sure the Ladder is a gimmick, but its ultimately just some special narration and the two wrestlers fight until Creative calls the match, then the chosen winner just does one of his usual finishers (or some creative ladder based finisher) and then ascends the ladder unopposed while his opponent is floored. Perhaps allow the “hardcore” match stipulation rule to be used if one of the wrestlers uses the ladder is a weapon.
The other thought is making the Ladder Match its own custom stipulation moveset, similar to the King of the Hill match rules. With moves like “When you attempt to ascend the ladder”, the other consideration I had is whether the constant setting up and toppling of the ladder should be included in the options of the moves.
For the latter version, here is my (Extremely rough) initial moveset:
============LADDER MATCH ============
Whenever a player makes the Wrestling Move, replace the normal result list with this one, depending on the circumstances
—- WHEN THE LADDER IS NOT ERECTED —-
ON A 10+: You hit it impressively well. You retain control of the match and Pick One:
– You erect the ladder
– You gain +2 Momentum
– You gain +1 Heat with your opponent
ON A 7-9: You hit it pretty well. Choose one:
– You retain control of the match and transition into the next sequence
– You give your opponent control of the match and gain +1 Momentum,
– You give your opponent control of the match as you erect the ladder.
ON A BOTCH: You get countered. You give 1 Momentum to your opponent, and they immediately take control of the match. If you have no Momentum, they still gain 1.*
—- WHEN YOU ATTEMPT TO ASCEND THE LADDER —-
ON A 10+: You fend your opponents off. Retain control of the match and pick 1:
– You gain +2 Momentum
– You gain +1 Heat with your opponent
– You ascend to the top of the ladder!
ON A 7-9: You hit pretty well. Choose One:
– You retain control of the match,
– You give control of the match to your opponent and gain +1 Momentum,
– You give control of the match to your opponent and ascend to the top of the ladder!
ON A BOTCH: You get knocked off the ladder and your opponent takes control of the match. Pick 1:
– You give one momentum to your opponent and the ladder is knocked down too
– The ladder remains erected.
—- WHEN YOU ARE AT THE TOP OF THE LADDER! —-
ON A 10+: You Grab the Hanging Prize and win the match!
ON A 7-9: You hit it pretty well. Choose One:
– You retain control of the match and transition into the next sequence,
– You give your opponent control of the match and gain +1 Momentum
– Leap off the ladder to attack your opponent and gain +1 Heat with them
ON A BOTCH: You get knocked off the ladder and your opponent takes control of the match. Pick 1:
– You give one momentum to your opponent and the ladder is knocked down too
– The ladder remains erect.
I was thinking of including an “When your opponent is on the ladder” move, but 3 moves already feels like I might be pushing it. I’m also not sure what to do if Creative wishes to have a specific ending for the match.
Ultimately however I worry that this might end up taking too long as you have to A) setup the ladder B) successfully Ascend C) Get a 10+ to actually win all without getting knocked off or having the ladder toppled. Its certainly something that could be tense and exciting, but I can also see it dragging quite easily.
I’ve never really done any tinkering with Apoc Engine stuff, nor do I have much experience with the system (but much love!). Anyone have any thoughts?
I’ll say that it looks like you might be trying to do too much with the idea of the ladder match.
I’d go with one or two moves to describe the non-finish differences between a normal match and a ladder match: Using the ladder as a weapon, and possibly jumping off the ladder to hurt someone.
Maybe for the finish, have something replace the Finishing Move with a new one, that introduces the dangers of the ladder and the potential botches that could occur.
You might be right, I’m probably overthinking/overcomplicating it.
Yeah, after more thought the “Keep It Simple, Stupid:” way to do a ladder match would probably be skin it as a “Hardcore” stipulation match where the ladder itself is the only valid object for using the Violence move and rephrase the move as “When you use the ladder as a weapon Roll +Real, when perform a leaping attack from the top of the ladder Roll +Work” and use the normal Violence move result table.
And even then, the +Real/+Work split there might be unnecessary too. Regardless, this loose adaptation probably works just as fine for a Cage Match as well.
It might be, but it’s a good place to start to allow for non-hardcore types to use the gimmicks in the gimmick matches where it makes sense (Ladder and Cage being the big two).
Also, maybe creating a high-risk Violence move, where you increase the injuries/injury chance while increasing the possible heat/momentum gains. Possibly even the audience stuff, although that seems very likely to make the audience swing like crazy.
Yeah I ultimately just took the violence result list and transferred it over to a “new” move.
USING THE LADDER
When you use the ladder as a weapon, perform a leaping attack from the top, or otherwise utilize the ladder in your Wrestling sequence, use the following Result List instead:
ON A 10+: The crowd goes nuts! Gain +1 Audience, retain control of the match and pick 1 from the 7-9 list.
ON A 7-9: The crowd pops, give your opponent control of the match and pick 1:
* Somebody takes an Injury
* You gain +2 Momentum
* You gain +1 Heat with your opponent
ON A BOTCH: You play it too safe or fuck it up. You give 1 Momentum to your opponent, they immediately take control of the match, and pick 1:
* You lose -1 Audience
* You take an Injury.
I also made one for Cage matches that is essentially the same just with a different description.
That sounds good to me!
At the level of abstraction I’ve aimed most of the Moves at, most singles stipulations are kind of the same – they either introduce a dangerous element into the match (so, the Violence Stipulation covers that), or they constrain the movement or run-in-ability of the contestants (like a Cage match), which is mostly about how narration goes.
You’ll notice the intense multi-move stipulations are for big everyone-participates matches, where they work pretty well because of how many people are going for each other and incidentally setting up feuds for later Episodes!