So after playing all of one session of WWWRPG, I was thinking about the run-in move. Specifically, the issue of the other person winning the match automatically by disqualification. In recent years, there are a lot of examples of run-ins where the ref is distracted or no DQ matches where heel run-ins are fairly common…
Nathan Paoletta do you think the run-in move should have an added option on the 7-9 or 10+ roll of having the run-in gone off successfully ? There would be no DQ and heat or momentum will be generated…
Or do you think the move can be folded into a heel move or something
This is not a bad idea. Also it may depend on if you can get an ally to distract the ref. Which could bring more people on.
Personally, I’d think that interference that leads to a win is more in Creative’s control. A run-in is more classically about beating people up and forcing the match to be stopped.
That being said, if you really want a normal wrestler to do this more than once, have them pick up the Manager’s Meal Ticket move. Maybe rename it, make it a normal move for everyone, if you expect it to be used by multiple people for the core of the story you’re trying to put forward.
One of the options on the heel move is “win the match”.
I think that means I actually could have taken the win, by using the heel move, with distracting the ref being my “underhanded tactics”, assuming the heel move can override the run-in move.
Adams Tower
I think you have it right here.
Nathan, possibly without much to back me up on this, I have to say that the run-in is completely opaque to a person who’s not familiar with it from watching wrestling. It still baffles me, even after all the times it showed up in our game.
Rohit Ramnath I’m taking an artistic position that distraction roll-up victories are almost always terrible ways to end matches, so I deliberately haven’t mechanized it ;). That said, the language of the move might allow for more flexibility if it doesn’t cause an automatic DQ and it’s more of a Creative’s call in the context of what else is going on, for sure.
Adams Tower yah, moves override each other in the order they’re performed, pretty much.
Ron Edwards yah, it’s so weird but it’s so core to wrestling. I’m not sure how to go about explicating it better, other than providing a nice detailed example in the text?
Nathan Paoletta
It’s not the rules of playing the game that puzzle me at all. It’s understanding the run-in at all in pro wrestling – what is it? What does it do? You say it’s “so core,” but can you explain why? I think a couple of paragraphs about that would be really helpful at many levels of learning the game.
The run-in in wrestling is where a wrestler who is not involved in the match at all shows up to the ring, beats on someone he is having a feud with/will have a feud with/is the enemy of a friend, and leaves… This can happen when a ref is distracted or in a no disqualification match, where there are no consequences… or it can happen in a regularly sanctioned match, whereby the wrestler who got beat up will win the match by disqualification. The run-in can also happen when the ref is distracted, when it is usually a single shot or something of that nature, and has no consequences for the match… I hope that was clear.
Rohit Ramnath
Argh! No! This is not what I am talking about. I am talking about the role run-ins play in the drama of kayfabe content, the opera as I often call it (following Barthes). What I’m seeing is that the “ordinary” win-lose content of matches can be subverted with these events, which are billed as “this guy hates that guy so much that he will break the rules for it,” throwing the whole win-lose of the scheduled match aside for the importance of the feud. Nathan Paoletta , is there some way to phrase this that makes someone like me want to see it happen in the game? “Oh boy, a run-in, now things are really heating up!” Can you say it so that I can see why it heats things up? Is it because it looks like “fucking it all up,” but isn’t? Is it because it heats up the whole-season, arc-type drama? What does it mean to a wrestler to be run-in on, for the guy who gets “shunted out” vs. the guy who gets challenged? How does it tie into the ref and announcers as performers? Are there some iconic, historical run-ins which totally established or exemplify what they’re for?
Run-ins signify a few things off the top of my head:
1) Things have turned personal in some way, and the breaking point has occurred. This is usually the only reason a face would ever do a run-in, they’ve had enough and they’re going to take revenge in some way, matches be damned. This run-in usually turns into a brawl, and from there, some sort of violent match, a la no DQ/hardcore match.
2) Someone is about to lose their title. Usually done by heels, the heel champ’s teammates run in and get their man DQed so he won’t lose the belt. This is usually followed by a beatdown by the heels, then a save by some faces. This is used to set up multiple storylines, between all the people involved. A cage match for the champ and challenger,and a mini-feud for the others.
3) Help establish a heel faction. This was the NWO’s big thing. Asserting dominance over others, showing that they will do whatever they want, whenever they want. This happened so often with the NWO that it became a self-parody.
4) ECW-style booking. One person beats up another person solely to start a new match. Sometimes, it’s to set up another match without any of the participants of the old match. This one is hard to explain in a big-picture sense without watching some old ECW, but it’s basically an ECW special that doesn’t get used much anymore. It’s purely to keep the crowd hot.
5) Setting up a shmoz. This is generally used to then set up or help sell a battle royal or some sort of free-for-all, multi-man match.
Yeah, the primary kayfabe reason to run-in is because you HATE THIS GUY SO MUCH that you just want to hurt him, “rules” be damned. To the audience, this signals a “this got personal” transition, heightening the feud past the “competitive sport” stage. This is the kind that the Move is structured to represent – someone comes in, there’s a DQ, there’s possible fallout along all three pairings of wrestler A, wrestler B, run-in C. So this might be what you want to see, on the player level – if you actually want to have a storyline with someone and you don’t see it happening so far, run in on their match.
A subset would be a “tactical” run-in where the purpose is to intentionally disqualify someone or “distract” someone in order to make them lose the match, which I am treating as a Creative call for match endings (or as a good way to use the Heel Move) because I think they’re lame. It would be easy enough to make a custom Move for it, though!
This is complicated by the fact that, backstage, one way to book a match without making one guy have to take a pin is to book a run-in that never goes anywhere, storyline-wise…the purpose there is just to “protect” both guys so aren’t taking losses. Again, this would be a Creative booking thang.
So, a little late to the party, but the “tactical” run-in, should be able to create heat, and momentum just like the regular run-in. And they aren’t inherently heel moves.
Sure there’s an over saturation of the ‘distraction’ moments, but that doesn’t mean that they should be abandoned all together.
Plus, there are also the rare moments, when in a feud with someone, you run in to ensure the guy you HATE, loses, so he is robbed of whatever opportunity his match ‘result’ may have offered him.
Having the person running-in describing how they interrupt, it would seem, the current move could still be used, without the current “Win the match by DQ” set in stone. If they say they are running out and attacking the talent they hate, yea, DQ, no problem.
Having them run out to do some mind games with them, that can be a good spot to call for the finish of the match with ‘lame’ distracted loss.
Also, if you’re running an ECW style show, where It’s mostly No DQ, the match obviously can’t end in a DQ.
Whether all this should solely be creative decisions/custom moves, is the question, I think.