Hey, there’s been a bit of a spike of new members. Hi new friends!
What’s cool, what’s new? Any questions we can answer? Any STRONG OPINIONS about wrestling you want to get off your chest?
Welcome!
Hey, there’s been a bit of a spike of new members. Hi new friends!
Hey, there’s been a bit of a spike of new members. Hi new friends!
I’m actually a bit frightened for Wrestlemania this year. With the backlash WWE faced last year after Taker and then a few months later with DB’s injury, combined the rather lackluster card thus far (I’m really only excited for a couple of matches), I’m worried that the entire thing will fall flat.
Chances are, right now, there are only going to be a few nice, long matches, with a bunch of either short matches or long but poorly done matches. I’m hopeful, though, that I’ll be pleasantly surprised by a couple of the matches on the card, namely Cena/Rusev and Bella&Bella/Paige&AJ.
This is the least enthused I’ve been for Wrestlemania since I started watching wrestling again regularly. I’ll be watching (since I have the Network there’s no reason not too) but my expectations are super low, so maybe I’ll be pleasantly surprised!
I, for one, am relieved to find out the Wrestling Isn’t Real
Well it is but only when you roll to Break Kayfabe.
Wrestling also Isn’t Wrestling
It’s Still Real To Us, Dammit!
Totally! I have my own ideas but would love to hear you unpack that, Tommy Brownell . What’s been lost, what’s been gained, you think?
Regarding psychology, it feels like WWE is working on that. It might not be happening very fast or with much variety but I think it’s happening.
Take for example the Heel reverse chin lock spot that seems to be in every match of any length. Traditionally used to get heat on the Babyface, I give them credit for going through the pains of (re)educating their audience that wrestling isn’t just an endless series of high spots. With hope this branches out into few different “rest” holds, but I can appreciate what they are attempting
Totally agree about psychology. I think the “WWE Product” relies more on the trappings (commentary, merch, catch phrases, finishing moves) to tell the story and the between-the-ropes stuff doesn’t have that same feel that the older territory/NWA matches do. That said, when WWE wrestlers do bring more psychology into their matches it’s great! But it seems to be a very performer-dependent thing.
Yeah! Commentary can be so helpful to heightening a match but the modern WWE version seems to exist in this weird zone where they either (a) talk about the character positively but as an abstract, not in context of the match (b) shit relentlessly on someone in the ring for no discernable reason and (c) talk about things that already happened on the show and ignore what’s in the ring.
I cringed when I heard Cole chastising JBL for saying ‘Belt’ instead of ‘Championship’ this past monday. So dumb
I feel that it comes down to the Monday Night Wars,
The Monday Night Wars were awesome and attracted people to the wrestling product. It also forced Vince to push wrestlers based on what the people wanted and not who he or creative wanted (due to the threat of losing viewers and ratings). Good things, to be sure.
However, the Monday Night Wars destroyed a ton of things wrestling needed: Slower Paced storylines (done away with thanks to Monthly PPV’s), Big match anticipation (back in the 80’s, we had to wait, for literally months, for Super Babyface to get his revenge on that dastardly Heel… now we could see it next week on RAW), Violence anticipation (Back in the day people barely even left the ring… so when there was a brawl on the floor… you knew it was serious. And don’t get me started about weapons), Jobber Squash matches (what I once thought were pointless, I now see were very necessary. They allowed you to put over talent without diminishing the other young talent. Zack Ryder, for example, could’ve benefitted beating a few no name jobbers.
I could go on and on… but yeah, it’s more than just psychology, even if psychology returned, the points I posted above would undermine it.
Also, because it needs to be said: For a second year in a row, the Royal Rumble, one of my favorite Gimmick PPV’s, was booed out of the building. It’s sad when WWE consistantly fails to keep their finger on the pulse of the fans.
Tommy Brownell I was there! And man was I souped for that match!
Indeed, year long storylines, especially main event ones, are awesome. Arguebly the greatest storyline in wrestling history, the Mega Powers exploding, was a nearly a two year long build (most people forget that technically, it started when Macho Man got into a year long fued with Honkey Tonk Man over who was the ‘Greatest IC Champion. During that fued, Macho’s alliance with Hogan formed).
I don’t mind WWE taking it’s time if it leads to what I want in the end, which goes back to what an above poster said: Will Wrestlemania end up flat? Wrestlemania is when the fans (supposedly) get what they want: Macho winning the world belt after being denied a champion ship for so long, Hogan winning the belt back after Savage proved to be an unworthy champion, Warrior beating Hogan, establihing that he has a greater destiny, etc.
People want Daniel Brian to be champion again (the booing at the Rumble proved that). That’s not going to happen. That bad taste could ruin the Main Event. Also… is this the right time for Lesner to lose the belt? And to Roman Reigns, whom he has only fueded for two months now? I don’t know about this, I really don’t.
Justin Phillips And the sad thing, Justin, is that each of your ideas are easy to implement. The Diva division, for example, can get a major boost by:
1. Do the one thing WCW did right and contract outside help (The cruserweight division contracted help from NJPW and Mexico and got entertaining matches for it)
2. Use your talent properly. Let the good athletes wrestle and let the gorgeous bodies look good on the camera without doing too much (and thus, don’t embarass themselves).
SHIMMER, while it can get stale at times, is pretty awesome when it clicks on all cylinders… and they got a third of the resources WWE has. WWE has no excuse really for the state of the DIVA division.
While I’m not very excited for Wrestlemania, I do think the focus on the lower card belts is exciting. If good, popular wrestlers are holding those, and they start using them to headline shows instead of lose in non-title matches every week, there’s potential here for a gradual shift in what they “mean”.
I think wrestling fans have this idea that if X happens, suddenly things will change – I do this too! But it’s actually pretty gradual. The whole Brock Lesnar championship run has had profound and I think, positive effects in terms of opening up the roster and giving more storylines more time, but there’s still been a lot of misses while they figure out the “absent champion” thing, and any given show may not be great. But WWE is different now that it was a year ago, it’s just hard to see it if you don’t intentionally zoom out a bit, I think.