Hey!
I’m a RPG-enthusiast from France (sorry for my approximativ english) who recently read WWW-RPG. Wrestling is not that big a thing here and I had very little knowledge of it prior reading the book (let’s assume that everything I knew about wrestling I learnt in Roland Barthes’ essay!).
Nevertheless I really liked what I’ve read. Nathan writes that wrestling is “arguably […] one of America’s truly original art form” and the book does a tremendous work arguing that case. After reading it I probably know more about wrestling than 95% of my countrymen.
Of course the book also convince us of the potential of roleplaying about wrestling. It allows us to shift the perspective around fights. It’s not about making tactical choices and tring to be the winner: it’s all about the show. In WWW-RPG we play characters who themself play the role of a character. How cool is that? (Rethorical question: it’s super-cool and it’s one clever use of the Apocalypse System).
Despite my praises, the game left me with questions, most of them are about the Kayfabe. I love the idea of blurying the line separating what’s in and what’s out of it but, for someone with minimal knowledge of wrestling it’s sometime a bit too blur.
So here are my questions :
1) Who is the Creative ?
I obviously know who is it around my gaming table (when I’ll present the game to my players it’ll be me) but are there NWC counterparts of the Creative in the fiction?
For exemple when the Creative reveal the outcome of a fight what does happen? Does the referee anounce the result to the wrestlers?
And when the Creative introduce a rivalry between two PC what does really happen? A member of the promotion ask the PCs if it’s okay for them to become rivals? Can the players say no? Aren’t they supposed to create their own feuds?
2) Why do the Creative reveal the outcome of a fight at the end of it?
I get it that the results of the fights are decided in advance but isn’t it strange to anouce them to the wrestlers at the end of the fight? It seems to me that it makes it difficult for them to build narrative tension toward the fight.
Or does it mean than the characters have more knowledge of the booking decisions than the players?
3) What about the Move that can override Creative’s booking
Meal Ticket, Run-In, ENMASCARADO, the heel move…what does really happen with these moves?
Is it part of the act? Are all these moves are decided backstage (it’s just than the characters have more knowledge than the player)? Or does the wrestlers really goes against the booking decisions?
Basically these moves make difficult for me to understand what is supposed to be the balance in a game session between backstage conversations and on-stage scenes.
If the characters know more about the booking than the players doesn’t it make difficult to play backstage scenes without contradictions in the fiction?
4) Is the Manager a real manager?
It’s probably a very stupid question but…the Manager doesn’t really manage the career of the wrestlers? It’s just another role?
The Meal ticket is just supposed to be performed on-stage during a fight?
And why does the role have rules about Injury? I thought the manager was never on the ring? Is he supposed to use move like Run-In to help his/her protégés?
5) Last (and probably least) question: 8 PLAYERS?!???
The book mention the Dreamation 2014 “Extermination” and thanks its 8 players!
Isn’t it a lot of PC for a roleplaying game? What is your secret?
I’m sure you’ll get some better answers later today, but here are some general thoughts:
1. Creative, as I read it in the book, are the people running the wrestling promotion behind the scenes. They are the writers, the producers, etc. Oftentimes, in American wrestling, “creative” can appear as a single person, a “boss” figure who says what happens. But usually, creative is the crew behind the wrestling promotion.
2. I imagine Creative reveals who the winner is at the end of the fight so as to encourage both wrestlers to put on a good show. If Wrestler X knows he’s losing going in, it could have a significant impact on how he behaves in the ring. Also, declaring the winner at the end allows the wrestlers to sway Creative’s decision based on what they do in the ring.
3. Moves that change Creative’s decision, as I read them, break kayfabe. They are changes made in the heat of the moment, similar to a quarterback in American football calling an audible when he sees the field. For whatever reason, the wrestler in the match does not think the match should end the way Creative sees it, and so they change it. Yes, this can have big consequences behind the scenes, depending on whether Creative agreed with the change.
4. The Manager in a professional wrestling match is not really a manager, but rather a “hype man” who helps sell the image of his wrestler to the crowd. Sometimes, wrestlers who aren’t very good at giving interviews or wrestlers who are having trouble being liked by the audience get a manager to help with that. Managers traditionally accompany their wrestler to the ring and further help sing the praises of their wrestler. Likewise, they sometimes interfere in a match to help their wrestler…or can be hurt by their wrestler’s opponent!
5. I’ve never run WWW with more than three players, but I imagine eight is probably a LOT of fun! I ran Dungeon World once with ten and it went really well!
Also, I suggest you check out WWE.com. Their 24-hour wrestling channel, the WWE Network, is available for a free one month trial and can be watched on any device. It’s a great place to go and see examples of everything in WWW! It would probably clear up a lot of confusion for you, particularly on how managers and creative work.
Steve, these are awesome questions. I’ll put some answers down, but do keep in mind that these are definitely filtered through my style of playing.
1. I see the Creative as an abstract force. Kind of a department where fiats are issued from. It could certainly have an avatar NWC, but for my games it generally does not. As for the outcomes, these are metagame moments. The ref doesn’t know, the characters know (but the players do not, until the booking is revealed). Creative manages the storylines that are presented to the audience. Rivalries are always a work for the audience, whether intentional or creatively spun into a new storyline. The difference between kayfabe and legit rivalries is how kayfabe is broken with regards to them. I can think of lots of examples, but I want to get on to other questions too.
2. Characters have more knowledge than the players, is the short answer. The idea is that the characters should be wrestling to win; and the late-reveal to the players means that there’s an emotional reaction because you’ve been working hard to try and gain mechanical advantages and maybe you don’t want to lose!
3. Overriding the booking is about the players being a part of the game, and having will to do something (because it is not their employment to lose). This is a dramatic move, and should have backstage consequences, even if they are not punitive.
Keep in mind that there are multiple layers of fiction and so that terminology as applied here is a lot more complicated. The players get to see all of the layers and how they interact. There’s the kayfabe layer that the audience is primarily seeing. There’s also the legit layer which the audience is not supposed to see, but sometimes does (i.e. breaking kayfabe).
4. The Manager is as legit a manager as they need/want to be. Maybe it’s all a work. Maybe it’s totally legit. There’s not a real answer as far as I am aware, only the players can tell you for a given situation. Manager characters in real life are frequently former wrestlers, and are often attacked as part of a feud… which is where the injuries come from.
5. 8 players is pretty awesome if everyone is on board for it. The thing is that the players are also the audience. So if the players enjoy watching wrestling, they can easily get into two other wrestlers going at it back and forth. I’ve run 9. I think 4 is too few for this game, I prefer at least 6. So it’s a lot of people, but the way things are divided up is really smooth, as long as you keep the scenes flowing.
Great questions!
The game works much like a typical RPG in that Creative lays out challenges for the characters of the players in the form of matches or arranged segments like interviews or training video. The players then consider how their characters would respond to the challenges and act accordingly. Creative’s role is to then take the actions of the players and present a cohesive story to the “imaginary” viewing audience.
Who is Creative:
How Creative does this is by creating characters to fill any role needed. Nathan challenges Creative to always speak through an NPW. A ring announcer can tell the players who is in the next match. An interviewer can ask the player why their character took a certain action on camera. An authority figure can be used on or off camera to congratulate or punish characters for their actions on and/or off camera.
End of the match:
Depending on the match, I’ve had different things happen. The referee can tell the wrestlers in the ring that it’s time for the match to end. An announcer could say something like, “It looks like The Smasher is setting him up for his finishing move” implying that characters knew but the players didn’t. Or the players just “feel” it and go for the finish and I tell them out of character if they were supposed to win or not. Most often I use the referee.
Why the end of the match? Dramatic tension I suppose. It doesn’t have to be the end of the match. You’re right in thinking that the characters know more than the players.
Feuds and Rivalries:
Feuds are your story arcs. Initially you might have to pair the players up with who you think will be fun. Most of the time though these are created by the players. Although, I like the idea of sometimes using an authority figure to ask the character if they want a feud. Or telling a character, “You’re going to have a feud with Wrestler X who is also the worst wrestling on the roster. Good Luck!”
Overriding Booking:
It is Creative roles to make sure these appear to be “part of the show” for the Imaginary Viewing Audience. It may be another case of the character having more knowledge than the players. OR Off camera, there may be an authority figure (or even another wrestler) who is very upset with an employee/coworker of the company who isn’t “sticking to the script”.
What happens “on camera” is the fiction. Deals and agreements may be taking place off-camera but if the Imaginary Viewing Audience doesn’t see it, “it didn’t happen”. These situations are good opportunities for players to use +Real moves and talk about the blurred Kayfabe line.
Thank you all for your messages. Now I think I have all the answers to play the game (I’ll just have to convince my french players that wrestling is a very cool theme for a RPG but I’m sure I’ll eventualy manage).
Great thread, everyone!
For whatever it’s worth, here’s the reasoning behind Creative waiting to reveal the finish in a match. It’s to preserve the ability of players to authentically play “as” their character or to advocate for their success, and set up the moments where, as a player, you really don’t want the booking to happen, so you have to figure out a way to change it by using the Moves at your disposal.
There’s a secondary effect that I really dig where a player will go ahead and use a Move to override the booking before it’s been revealed, and it gets “swerved” too the original booking – when I’m Creative I don’t usually make it known when that happens, and it helps me “make it look like that was the plan all along”.
Often times in longer term play and/or with players who have that genre understanding of how matches “should” play out, they’ll ask about the booking earlier than Creative has generally been revealing it, so they can turn the whole story of the match towards the end. But that’s an emergent thing, not necessarily a desired goal, you know?
Anyway. Good stuff, let us know if you have more questions!
“Can I work toward my character losing or is it Breaking Kayfabe?”