I may be getting stupid, but when I read Vamp’s description of being ‘pure muscle, terrifying and feral when trapped’ somewhat strange. Besides having Blood +1 he does not seem to have anything that even closely resembles ‘terrifying’. Yes, he can manipulate people, can persuade and manipulate, can get what he wants, but in the end, when he pushed in the corner, he has zero offense beyond not all that powerful +1 Blood and some fictional positioning for Let It Out (which relies on his weak Spirit)
So what am I missing?
We talk about the Vamp being a predator, strong, fast and eternal. Blood +1 covers that pretty well, but also between their Eternal Hunger move and True Hunter corruption move, they can be pretty damned scary.
You see, Andrew Medeiros, both those moves you mention do not help at all when, say, PC wizard or hunter comes knocking on their door with a shotgun. I’m also not sure second move can be triggered in actual fight with NPC (as you probably need to make them flee before pursuing them)
BTW, remind me, does Vamp’s Web include those with whom you state Debts on game start? As per text it seems it does not.
All in all, Vamp reminds me of Maestro D from AW Limited Playbooks, and while he or she or they were all about establishment and social web, in case of pure physical threat maximum they could get was guards and security features of their establishment. Since Safe Haven is not built in, I’d say Vamp may very well need some goons for bodyguard duty. What makes me feel weird is that Vampire as per mythos (or baggage as they say in the book) always was quite dangerous even in straight fight. Not always extremely deadly, but at least formidable. Maybe I just miss good old Vtm in which even Ventrue had some basic safety powers.
Well, if the Hunter comes knocking on anyone’s door looking for trouble, that person is in deep, deep trouble, no matter who they are. 🙂
The Vamp’s Web does not include starting Debts, only people who come to them during the course of play. As MC, you should throw loads of NPC’s at their Web, let them revel in it! 😀
Our Vamp is manipulative, powerful, and connected. They’re scary in a physical way, yes, but most of what makes them scary is how parasitic they are. Everyone loves the Vamp even though they’re terrible for them.
The +1 Blood and ability to heal and get +1 forward from feeding makes a Vampire physically capable. However, as in most Apocalypse World hacks the fiction also has a power of its own that not in the moves. So a Vampire will be able to do more impressive physical feats and heal faster than a mortal under the rules as written too.
Hm. That is interesting. You mean there’re some things you get just as a vampire and some things which you get by using ‘let it out’? How would you divide those?
e.g. if we say in the fiction gravity does not concern vampires as much and they can walk on walls – would that mean that vampire gets to walk on walls by default or that he has to roll to Let It Out?
For Wizards btw it’s even trickier, since while they do not have anything ‘innate’, their power may let them do certain things
+1 Blood is a pretty decent combatant, I’m not sure what more is needed. You can make a more combat-dangerous vamp by making Blood your add and picking the sword (who wouldn’t pick the sword anyway, probably someone with a bad haircut), then getting your fangs into as many people as you can during the fight – each one healing you 1 harm and/or giving you a further 1 forward. Murder one of each faction and you can take an advance that puts your Blood to +3 like right away!
You have +1 blood and you can add one to any stat when you create character, and later you can take +1 Blood (max +3) on first advance if you want strong and deadly night hunter (and, btw, hunter also have only +1 blood at start).
PS I know you were being metaphorical with a Hunter “knocking on your door”, but if a Hunter starts to threaten your interests, you immediately get a Debt on them and you can ask them to give you a worthy and useful gift without cost – depending on the circumstances, this might include “let me get away with my life, you don’t want to hurt this beautiful face/haircut, do you?” Unless they’re really out for revenge in such a deep and vicious fashion that it will actually deeply cost them to let you go, they have to let you go (or you get to hammer them with their debt refusal, assuming they are a PC hunter.)
Ганс Андроид Let it out covers 4 mechanical bonuses and we need game mechanic, if we have conflict situation. So, if vamp want to use his ability walk on wall for escape from battle, i think, he needs to “Take definite hold of something vulnerable or exposed”, where wall is considered as “vulnerable”. But if vamp wants to do it before conflict start, when there is no immediately danger, i think, we dont need roll for it.
All amazing answers here! I especially like Jason Corley’s point about The Web.
Problem of the web and resulting debts is that sometimes one refuse to honor does not matter all that much. Granted, it is worse against Night (which is usually organized) vs Power (members of which are highly individualistic), but still
It’s political pressure, which doesn’t always work if the person you’re targeting has a social death wish.
Have we addressed your main question about the Vamp being bad-ass enough for you?
in the end – yes, and sorry if I ‘sounded’ too stubborn. Main reason I see that there’s enough benefits is that I forgot about various inherent powers that vampire will probably have in the game, some even innate, and Let it Out covers others (even though it is weak as base)
Oh no need to apologize. The vampire has seen so many reinterpretations that everyone has their own unique vision of what she should look. US’ Vamp is Mark and I’s vision and we really like it, but hey, you’ll never satisfy the vampire itch for everyone. 🙂
In terms of refusing to honor the debt that the Web imposes, I would almost never let an NPC do that for any reason; shaking up the existing “way things are” to the extent of shaking the trust in this vicious cycle of debt and payoff seems to me to be the sole provenance of the PCs in urban fantasy games. If NPCs could change how things worked, they already would have, and things would work that way instead of the way they do. “You want it to be one way….but it’s the other way.” as Marlo from The Wire says.
Of course a PC hunter is a different story (and a PC hunter crossing a non-PC vampire doesn’t automatically create a Web obligation, though it might, if the GM “tells consequences and asks” in that direction.)
In response to the question re: my comment, totally. Fiction as established is powerful as it can also influence when moves are triggered or not. For example, I expect some GMs to say single gunshots against Vamps won’t always even qualify for Unleash moves given their physiology. The same goes for an incorporeal Spectres, or someone using a knife against a Fae wearing plate armor.