Is there any hack, or even just a (set of) playbook(s), that eschew stats in favor of defining and advancing the character entirely by move selection? I’ve been drawing a blank.
Is there any hack, or even just a (set of) playbook(s), that eschew stats in favor of defining and advancing the…
Is there any hack, or even just a (set of) playbook(s), that eschew stats in favor of defining and advancing the…
Undying which has recently had a very successful kickstarter is diceless. Instead, the few stats represent where the character is in their unlike (how human they act and how powerful they are in the pecking order)
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I backed it but haven’t dug into the mechanics yet. Will have to do so.
I’m trying to make sure I don’t reinvent the wheel with what I’m working on.
There’s not really advancement, if I recall, but Ornithopter World does get rid of stats. It does some other things that I find interesting – the players are basically in charge of 20-30 characters, the characters as individuals are pretty flimsy. It’s kind of a steampunk Oregon Trail as they try to survive, gather resources, and repair their ship. As flimsy or ‘thin’ characters, there are no stats to add to rolls, but you can do certain things to add to rolls – if you spend ammunition, you can get a bonus to shoot-outs, that sort of thing. Kind of the way the Angel Kit works in AW.
It is over here: http://www.story-games.com/forums/discussion/19618/ornithopter-world-troupe-play-powered-by-the-apocalypse
Josh McGraw I looked it over. The mechanics are very dense and tightly interwoven. At four stats it sounds simple enough but the way they’re reliant on one another makes it look like they’ll be called upon in almost every situation. I haven’t played it yet but it might be what you need.
I’m less interested in going diceless, and more interested in examples of characters in dice-based systems that don’t have basic, defining “stats” that get called on multiple ways. Where the character is defined entirely by move selection. So there’s a question obviously of “how does move resolution even work, then” that I was curious for examples of. Doomed Pilgrim, for example, just weaves the outcomes somewhat broadly, and the rolls are generally unmodded by default.
Since I started posting about this, I’ve actually come up with something that SEEMS unprecedented. More to come; I’ve got to write up enough moves to even call it “basic playbooks” before I can run some tests.
You might want to also take a look at swords without masters. It’s not an AW hack, so I didn’t initially mention it, but there are no character stats, just descriptors. There isn’t conflict resolution either, instead there are prescribed things players can narrate at certain times, and the rolling mechanism more determines tone and if there are any complications.
There is also the drama system (most popularized by hill folk) which also doesn’t have stats. For the most part there isn’t a conflict resolution system, but instead you can force other characters to give in if you have enough resources. It isn’t really a game that relies on outside influences to drive much of the story though.
Swords doesn’t really quite capture what I’m after, much as I love it. Drama System sounds, on face, kinda like Undying (use resource commitment to win conflict, from what you’re saying). Both of which are worth further research before I nail down what I’m doing.
actually they are very different games. Undying basically has the rule of whoever spends the most blood wins, which often boils down to whoever has the most (I only played it in it’s early days where it was posted on g+, but from what I can tell it hasn’t changed much).
The drama system is such a different scope though that this doesn’t really apply. Basically it is a scene framing type of system, where a player sets up the scene. Each scene requires that character to have something they want from another character on an emotional level. Wanting an item doesn’t work for the want, but wanting submission does. They then play out the scene, purely narrative. If the framing character got what they asked for, they give the giving character a token. If not, the character who refused them gives the framing character a token. Tokens can be used to forcefully enter scenes they were not framed in, force a character they’re asking to give them their emotional ask, or to cancel out another token expenditure. Whenever you spend tokens, they go to the effected character, so it is a completely internal economy (unless someone is broke, there are specific rules to that).
Essentially it is a system about relationships where everyone wants things from each other, while undying is a system about positioning and resource control. While hoarding blood in undying is good, it’s rather pointless in drama. I don’t know exactly what your interested in doing, so I’m just posting successful examples of statless systems (or near enough) for you to think about. That’s really all I can do with the info you gave.
I really appreciate the input, seriously. I’m being vague because I’m honestly still kinda vague with MYSELF about what I’m trying to accomplish; I’ve gradually orbited closer to an actual “this is what I’m doing” for like the last 6+ months and I’m kinda nervous to publicly pigeonhole myself into this week’s framing of my idea.
But hell with it, maybe that’ll force me into maintaining some of this momentum I’ve built today.
I’m less aiming at big sweeping relational drama and more “a lonely hero or two pushing through an ancient temple, guided by a guardian spirit which is also player-controlled.” The players controlling, say Navi from Ocarina of Time (or Mushu from Mulan, to give another “guardian spirit” example) would be interacting with the narrative in a different way than the adventurers, and thus wouldn’t have the same (or any) stats.
What I’ve settled on, is that their roll modifier is not based on a stat, but based on a wagered value of their Bond with their Hero (probably a pool of 0-5, likely reflected by counter tokens). Big gambles may lead to big successes, but failed rolls forfeit the Bond that was wagered.
With a single fluid-value “stat” influencing the rolls, Guardian Spirit characters would be defined by their moves; I see no other way to do it. I haven’t seen any particular indication that anyone’s tried anything like this resolution idea before, but I can’t exactly say I’ve done my homework super thoroughly either.
There are some places to look. The dual role aspect, where players play a character and another character’s spirit is a bit reminiscent of Polaris or Thou art but a Warrior. The bid mechanic isn’t one I’ve seen as a core mechanic in an rpg, but I think I’ve seen stuff like that in board games (I’m blanking on which). You might also want to look at Bliss Stage for examples of how you use your bonds with others in dangerous situations but doing so has consequences for said relationships.
I have also started thinking about how to play out a character/familiar relationship this weekend for an idea I had about people who talk to fears, including their own. I haven’t thought of anything novel for it yet, but then again, I have almost no mechanics planned out yet, I just had the idea for the setting and it sounds neat.
I really, really appreciate all those recommendations! I’ve heard of most, but not played any of them and thus wouldn’t thought to look into them for ideas.
This is all going in my “homework” pile. 🙂