New potential GM here! As I’m optimistically looking towards the future, I’ve got a question about Advancement. Certain moves that everyone should be able to acquire are linked to elements of characters that are not necessarily transferable.
Ex. The Janus wants to take Venting Frustration from the Protege’s playbook. But they don’t have a mentor with a Label they denies. Do they acquire a mentor then? And does this mean they have to decide the mentor’s powers as well?
Son of Ex. The Doomed wants to take Words of the Past from the Legacy’s playbook. Does this mean they get a Legacy? Just one person or four of them? Do they also have to roll to see how their Legacy is feeling about them?
It’s easy to brush aside these questions by saying it wouldn’t be appropriate, but I can think of situations where they would be. The Janus finds another hero with a secret identity to help them along or the Doomed finds out they aren’t the first to struggle against this fate. And if it’s narratively and mechanically sound to take one of these conditional moves, what do?
I’ve got a few ideas, but I wanted to hear what other people thought first.
In general you cant take and acquire a move unless it fits. if something has changed or the narrative can change in a way that makes it fit it happens, if not they cant take they move.
I would disagree. Moves in PbtA games are descriptive and prescriptive. If a player sets up finding another hero with a secret identity, they now have the basis to take the move (or it might even make sense to give them the move without an advance, depending on the circumstances). However, it is entirely within a player’s rights to take a move and fictionally justify it.
My response may have came out wrong, but that is effectively what I meant. If they can fictionally justify it then it works. If they cant, then they cant.
If a player can find a reason to use move X in fiction, and it’s not gamebreaking, I say go for it. But not every teen is every other teen, and some mutually exclusive things can occur. I think it’d be weird for the Transformed to take the Youth’s move “Hug” or the Beacon to take “Alien Ways”.
Great responses from everybody, but I’m not asking if they should take it or not. I’m trying to ask what do you do when they do take it. If the Janus takes a move that requires a Protege’s master, how would you handle that situation.
My take on the playbooks in Masks is that they’re not necessarily the sum total of everything your hero is, they’re just representing the part that is currently most defining. The example I’ve been using to explain it to some other folks so far is that a guy who’s suddenly turned into an 8ft tall monster is only The Transformed if that transformation is actually causing him a real Man vs Monster identity struggle. If he thinks being 8ft tall now is super awesome and of course he should become a superhero now ’cause it’s not like he’s gonna get a job working the drive-thru, then he’s probably The Beacon. Or if he’s just accepted it as part of who he is and, y’know, whatever, he benches trucks now, and maybe people need to learn to get outta his way, maybe he’s The Bull. Or maybe his whole family line is werewolves, Teen Wolf style, and you want his story to more focus on his place within that family situation than his personal angst: go Legacy.
Swinging that example back around to your queries, it’s totally viable for anyone to fictionally have a mentor or legacy — or just about any other bit of fiction in that vein — without actually being that playbook, it just means that relationship doesn’t define their story arc. I mean, otherwise the entire cast of Young Justice would be playing Protege’s, and that’d be super dull. 😛 As GM you’re gonna be creating adults and existing heroes and stuff anyway, and trying desperately to get your players to care about them, so if a player says “I want to take a move from another playbook that says I care a lot about the advice of a particular NPC”, I’d rejoice and run with it as fast as I could. 😛
If the fiction hasn’t already set up who they’re planning on Words of Past-ing with, or who their mentor is that they’re trying to spite when they Vent Frustration, obviously you’ll need to hash out who they seek advice from, but I wouldn’t necessarily feel the need to detail out all the members of the legacy and their traditions and all that stuff. ’cause since they’re not The Legacy, that stuff will only matter when it matters, instead of being a core part of their gameplay experience. And as GM, I’d personally also be fine ditching the whole legacy attachment of the Words of Past move when taken by another playbook and if they want to make the group of people they seek advice from “their supervisors at work” or “Uncle Bob & Aunt Agnes” or someone else not necessarily part of a city-wide-famous history, I’d have no problem with that either.
In other pbta games, getting one move also grants you moves or items that move depends on.
In Dungeon World, taking Cast a Spell from the Wizard also means you have Spellbook and Prepare Spells.
In Apocalypse World, gaining a Holding means you take the Leadership and Wealth moves from the Hardholder.
If a move requires you to have another move in order to work, then your player should get both.
URDNOT REKT in Apocalypse World (and other games) however getting a Move that requires a specific thing DOESN’T give you the thing as well. You can’t use the Wealth Move while not having a holding. You can’t lead someone into battle with your move when you don’t have a gang etc.
Some of these moves can be slightly retargeted. Maybe you don’t have a heroic mentor per se but you have an NPC you go to for help sometimes. That is now who the move applies to etc.
In general I wouldn’t take such a move though, when it makes no sense in the fiction. When there is no one already established in the world that would fit.
Take something else. Not all moves are for everyone and that is okay.
Camden Jenkins I’d think players take such a move for a specific reason. When it makes no sense to you in the moment ask them. Ask them how this works for their character. Who do they see as their mentor. If they can’t find anything that seems to fit, suggest a different move to them. There really is no magic there.