Another question from our game last night.
Villains have moves when they take damage. Are those moves considered hard moves that can’t be interrupted or regular moves where the players get a chance to react.
I’m torn, because on the one hand I love that Villains get a chance to do something automatically in response to damage. I’ve often felt Villains to be mechanically weak in PbtA games. On the other hand, it sucks as a hero to get a good hit in and then have the villain be rewarded with a hard move that might turn the tables entirely.
In a recent game I MCd, when the villain was injured, I chose the move to escape the combat. But since I interpreted it as a “soft” move, I let the players respond. One player made an opportunity, then another, and then the final blow was delivered. If they hadn’t created opportunities, I’d have let the villain escape. But they made good choices and he never had a chance.
If that had been a hard move, it would have been, “Bam, you slammed him down the street and into an overturned vehicle. He gets up and teleports away.”
Thoughts, rulings, grammar issues? 😉
Sub
My current interpretation is they’re hard moves. If a guy can teleport you ain’t gonna beat him by punching him and if he gets hit hard he should teleport away. If the characters know the guy can teleport and that if they hit him hard he’s going to bolt, then they won’t hit him hard.
This might be wrong, but I think it depends on whether you have successfully inflicted a condition. Villains have a certain number of conditions that can be inflicted, and if you accomplish something that would cause one of those conditions, you give them that condition, but it also triggers a hard move. That way, you are getting closer to defeating them, but you also put your team in direct, serious danger.
There are other things you can do to affect the villain that may not successfully inflict a condition, and those things trigger soft moves instead.
That’s why the stronger villains have more conditions that can be inflicted–you have to survive through that many more hard moves as you fight them.
Disclaimer: I don’t try very hard to mechanically differentiate between “hard” and “soft” moves.
My interpretation has always been that it’s just a consequence of the narrative and the GM’s intentions for the villain. If the villain does have the ability to stand up and teleport away, and is in a condition to use it, I wouldn’t have that be interruptable (…easily. If a PC wanted to pull a stunt to stop the teleport, and it sounded reasonable, I’d give them a shot. But it would be difficult, and they’d have to narratively be in a position to pull it off basically immediately). On the other hand, if a villain gets up and runs away, of course they can try to stop the villain.
That’s basically my logic for everything else. If the move after getting hit is “melee attacker gets shocked by electric forcefield”, then they’re getting shocked. If it’s something like “snake on shoulders automatically strikes at attacker” then the attacker would potentially have the ability to dodge.
TL;DR: It’s whatever the narrative implies.
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Well, it’s a 6-, 7-9, 10+ principle.
If the hero striking them trades blows, you make a move.
One of the agendas is “Make the players feel superheroic.”
You’re also tasked to make a move like “show the downsides of collateral damage” or “put innocents in danger.”
A situation where Terrodon, the exploding dinosaur explodes >*No matter what players do*< isn't very heroic.
If Trash Wytch decides to cast a containment spell and gets a 10+, she may avoid retaliation and take something from Terrodon (like his mobility). Him exploding anyway doesn’t seem fair, BUT there are two options TW didn’t pick:
–Impress/Frighten someone
–Create an opportunity for allies.
It’d be reasonable for a GM to bring in a soft move from the other two (ex: The local news shows up; Wytch’s shield is too good and allies will need to break it to attack the DinoBomb further.
Basically, when villains are damaged, they “Exploit their Prep.” If they’re mindless, they’ve probably damaged something or brought trouble with them. If they’re brilliant, they’ve planned for contingencies. But the heroes are good at being heroes; if they keep getting 10s, they should be generally on top of things. (That’s why you face characters with things they’re not good at and moral conflicts!)
Adam Goldberg This is a different case. There is a list of Villain Moves in Masks for when the Villains take consequences. I kinda see where you’re going, though. If the initial combat roll was mixed, then when they get hit with a Villain Consequence move, it will be hard. But if it was 10+, even if they don’t avoid the blow, the Villain Consequence move will be soft. Is that what you mean?
I can deal with rolls and moves. It’s the new, and awesome, game tech here of the Villain Consequence Move that has raised questions.
I’m trying to find the last time Brendan ruled on this but I can’t find the new G+’s search feature.
Depends a little bit on your definition. I’ve seen the soft/hard dichotomy explained two different ways: The first is that soft moves set up a situation and hard moves follow through on it, the second is that soft moves can be avoided and hard moves must be suffered.
Under the first definition, the condition moves are soft moves. The point of the condition moves is to keep the battle dynamic. You can’t just punch the villain five times in the face to get through their HP: each time you land a blow, the situation changes some how. So they’re soft moves in that they’re setting up the new situation.
Using the power of the aforementioned G+ search feature I bring ye the wisdom of the past, from that dark and ancient time known as “about 4 months ago or so”.
https://plus.google.com/103338054187217183319/posts/NkCXRuhgZQJ
The whole thing’s worth reading, but the most directly-relevant bit from Brendan:
“Making a villain’s response action a hard move — an irrevocable thing that happens in the fiction — is down to whether or not there’s a golden opportunity. In some situations (such as when the hero takes a powerful blow and gives the villain an opportunity) it absolutely makes sense that the villain seizes that opportunity when breaking the environment. But often times, it will be a softer move, giving PCs a chance to respond.”