Transition between the Archetypes whose grounding is less physiological is pretty straightforward – it’s easy to move out of almost every Mortality Archetype, for example – but others require a lot more character sheet surgery and fictional wrangling to make sense.
How have you adjudicated Archetype switches in your own campaigns and one-shots?
It’s an audacious mechanic, and I’d love to see a more in-depth discussion of that in a future supplement.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15MCs1aZmPWk0heRbvl4B1lrRb3Vkg8mU2OAmb88JnnI/edit#gid=0
The key thing to remember is to follow the steps for that advance on the top of page 166; most pertinently, you don’t lose anything from your old archetype unless the fiction demands it. I am of the opinion that you should always give something up if you’re making that big a character change, but you don’t by any means completely lose what your original archetype said about you.
For example: an Immortal decides that they’ve been removed from mortal life for too long, and they decide to give up their extravagant lifestyle and start over at street level. They change archetypes and become an Aware. Their fiction says that they’re not playing power games anymore, so they give up their Schemes, but they keep their End move because they still can’t die. Their physiological grounding, as you say, hasn’t changed; their social status has.
On the other end: a Wolf burns out their connection to the moon in a fight with a demon, and steps back from the front lines as a result, taking a more advisory role to their pack. They become a Veteran, giving up their ability to transform but keeping their territory and place in their pack. Their physiological nature has changed, but their social status is largely the same.
The fiction would demand a lot from a Spectre that found its way back across the veil. I feel like that’s probably the most destructive transition, even if you’re being generous about what the ex-Spectre brings to a mortal body.
Haven’t run US yet, but somewhere in the group I have a theoretical character career of:
Aware to Hunter to Tainted to Veteran to Vampire
Story being FBI agent recruited to monster policing group subjected to experimental procedure that was slowly killing her (her Demon) until she was more broken down than she started at and eventually goes to a vampire coven of a type she’s fine with to get turned and save her life from the painful death by unstable mutation.
I also did a theoretical MotW career for Saber from Fate/Stay Night and Fate/Zero
The Chosen (pulling the sword) leading to the Leader (King, note Leader is an archetype I made but haven’t published yet) to the Divine (Servant to Kiritsugu in Fate/Zero) to the Exile (underpowered Servant to Shirou in Fate/Stay Night)
[Edit: Regarding Spectres] True, but what I’m saying is that changing to a different Archetype doesn’t necessarily mean that the the Spectre isn’t a ghost anymore. They could totally transition to Hunter and be an avenging spirit who hunts down murderers, for instance.
You’re right that if they did find some way to get a new body they’d give up a lot, though–but on the other hand they’re also gaining a lot by having a body again.
Yeah. If transition from Spectre to Hunter you might keep all the Spectre moves but the concept of hunting is more central than that of being a ghost.
But transitioning to a Spectre is necessarily a physiological transition. Anyone can hunt, but only an actual apparition can haunt. 😉
or a person stuck in phase between realities.
or an eldritch entity that periodically enters this reality
or so on…
Granted!
This is done as in previous games we did it: what fiction calls.
We have been changing “archetypes” from D&D to US all througth World of Darkness.
Each character is unique in his own way, and no transitions are the same.
Just take the character, look what fiction demands, and then adjust the rules as needed.
I’d like to note that I’m not saying that interesting transitions are impossible – I’m just curious how they’ve played out in your own campaigns. It’s a rich and messy mechanic in the very best way, and might have benefited from a liiittle more discussion in the core book.
basically, a transition needs to make sense in the fiction somehow and possibly be pre-planned. If the hunter wants to transition to the Spectre or something else with a fiction gate attached, you’ll want to work with your GM to have it happen, maybe at the beginning of or end of the next session.
I’m going to be playing a spectre in an upcoming game and was looking at this question. The Immortal also made a lot of sense to me, found a way to permanently bind the spectre to earth or something like that.