Currently playing a Bull in the first ever game I’m in and finished up my first session last week. I had some questions for you guys just so I can enjoy this game as much as possible.
1. When a Bull has a Nova on the team, how do they go about cementing that their the best at fighting? Like The Hulk and Wolverine are both scary dudes but what does that matter when Phoenix or Scarlet Witch shows up?
2. Of the different roles it seems like the Bulls creative space is most focused on defining his powers and how they work given how open ended the questions are about what they are and how they work compared to other classes. Is it okay to followup on the exact way their powers work after creation or does that read more as trying to become OP or constantly adjusting the fiction to suit your needs?
3. A lot of classes get to choose from other playbooks moves or even other playbooks abilities as advances and the Bull just gets to define more of the relationships of Bull’s heart. Is having more options in that really so powerful? Am I missing something? So far it seems like Friend is the really powerful one of those given how fast it could possibly get you potential.
4. It seems like the Bull playbook seems contextually reliant on some sort of dark past (Weapon X program etc.) given things like the gm move suggesting “Reveal dark secrets of their past” and their love relationship being defined by “__ is your love. You’ve opened up to them about the worst parts of your past”. Does it hurt the fiction to not have a more morally corrupt backstory?
First time player here so happy to take any input you guys have to give.
Sounds like you found your rival! In all seriousness, though, The Nova gets to do amazing things, but has to be careful how often that happens. You get to punch stuff all the time.
If you are thinking about the system in terms of power balance, you may also be missing the point. It’s a game that’s more about the characters than it is about the specifics of the action. Creating a fire elemental to smash into an enemy and throwing an enemy across the room is functionally the same. There’s a massive level of power imbalance between the characters in action terms, but it plays out well because of how the system is structured.
What makes The Bull interesting in a campaign is their tendency to obsess. They get obsessed with a member of the team and want to protect them even though they probably can’t. They obsess about a rival that gets more of the attention. They get mad sometimes, and things get out of hand.
Instead of looking to win the game, focus on trying to work with the group to make your story an engaging superhero stories, using the archetypes to create tension and cool moments. Ask how superheroes like The Hulk and Wolverine fit into teams, then play in that dramatic space. If another character seems to get cooler abilities, then weave that into the fiction. That stupid Nova gets all the attention while you’re just doing your best. How does that make your character feel?
In terms of your backstory, it’s more important that you give your heart away and have some anger and bitterness about your past, regardless of the details of that past.
I hope that helps. If you are coming to an Apocalypse Engine game from more traditional systems, there’s a weird learning curve while you settle into its style.
Very interesting! This isn’t my first Apocalypse game but I am a slow learner ;p. I have already made the Nova my rival (I’m a Kamen Rider like character and she can control gravity, it’s hard to feel touch when someone can just make you float limply in the air.) and am trying to figure what part of the fiction I should best try to creatively fill. I will try to run with the obsession and possibly feeling inadequate angles. Maybe see if I can throw in some Ben Grimm lovability/street level common sense in there for good measure. Thanks.
Good questions. But as i read them, i think it’s worth pointing out, Masks isn’t a game about playing a super hero’s powers. It’s a game about young adult superheroes struggling with their self identify when confronted with power and responsibility, interactions with adults (there is a reason ALL adults get influence!), and interactions with peers.
The Bull isn’t about being best at fighting. It’s about being a passionate juggernaut. It’s about being physically imposing, but emotionally vulnerable through those you care about, and those you measure yourself against. You can regularly designate new rivals and lovers, from scene to scene, or even within a scene.
With that understanding of the playbook, i think your first three questions are a bit off-track.
Your fourth question is great though – “Does it hurt the fiction to not have a more morally corrupt backstory?”
Absolutely not! Perhaps the Bull does not come from some shady past where they were used toward ill purposes. Perhaps, instead, the Bull has led a righteous life all along. In this case, when moves invoke “dark secrets” and the like, you can instead look at moments where the Bull has had to make the hard decision to do what’s right, but at great cost, and feels guilty for that cost. Some villain made you choose between saving a bus full of kittens OR your grandma… Which did you choose? How did this choice affect you? How have you changed your training so that, if given the chance, you could have saved both?
I’d like to address question number 3. Having 2 more options is actually very powerful both narratively and mechanically.
Narratively this represents the Bull’s focus on their love and rival , they don’t get things from other playbooks because they are so focused on these two people. Additionally taking it also represents that your Bull has grown in how they relate to their love and rival, and can see their relationship in more then one dimension.
Mechanically Defender is just like the Nova’s shielding flare, with the cost replaced by a restriction in target,s but it combines well with there when it matters. Listener basically lets you succeed on pierce the mask even if your Mundane is terrible. Enabler is a pretty standard label replacement move, but it gives you another option if you have been relying on “You’ve got a head you don’t need” for provoke.
For an excellent example of question 1, check out The Authority; Midnighter and Apollo are a Bull and Nova respectively and, while Apollo is a consistent demolition machine, Midnighter is the most tactically sound member of the team and is indispensable.
Andrew Fish I am getting the concept more and more, the emotional core as opposed to leveraging your mechanics into stat bonuses. I disagree with your assessment that the Bull is not meant to be the best fighter though that does not mean most powerful by any means. I think the Bull i primarily about being the best at fighting and having that small circle that you feel emotionally vulnerable with in ways both loving and competitive.
You hit on something interesting to me though. The idea of the Bull as someone who only allows 2 people in at a time YET those people can change at a whim. I think that’s fairly interesting and am unsure whether to read that as the ability to play very fickle Bull or something else.
I’d acknowledge being off track with my questions. I think it mainly came from a comparison of other playbooks and how their playbooks either expand on their powersets or allow them to take fully from another. I was mainly trying to decipher if people think getting to choose 2 more roles that you commonly fulfill with Bull’s heart is equal to 2 possible advances or taking from another playbook.
I think that’s more the route I’m going, the idea of guilt for things that were beyond your control but you feel responsible for anyways. I love my angsty teens and Angel-like antiheroes who hold themselves too responsible for everything.
Arc Gamedirector So from your perspective it’s this idea of growth. Like you aren’t just friendly with those you love just like you aren’t just teasing with those you want to compete against. It’s all sort of mixed together. I like that.
Yeah I think Defender is by far the strongest of those and Enabler could be interesting if you’re playing a very rogue like Bull whose intent on appealing to peoples darker natures but otherwise doesn’t appeal so much to me but that’s a mileage may vary thing.
Chris Huddleston Love authority. The unique fighting ability I gave my character was just Midnighter’s fight computer. I think my character would make for an indispensable leader if he wasn’t constantly deciding to take things into his own hands trying to keep others from having to get hurt or having to hurt others.