Guys, please solve this doubt of mine: is the PbtA a creative common system? May I create, write, publish and even sell an own game using the Apocalypse Engine? I’ve googled it but it did not bring me any answer.
Guys, please solve this doubt of mine: is the PbtA a creative common system?
Guys, please solve this doubt of mine: is the PbtA a creative common system?
Nope, if you want to use any of AW’s text you have to talk to Vincient. But system isn’t copyrightable, so he gives his explicit blessing for AW derived games that don’t use his text. Also Dungeon World is a CC BY licensed game, so you can use its text if properly attributed.
If the dozens of games that do exactly that weren’t evidence enough, here’s explicit permission and encouragement from Vincent Baker himself: http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=29.0
And I can’t find any indication of Apocalypse World being CC, but plenty of PbtA games published since then have been, Dungeon World being perhaps the most prominent and open source of the lot.
This is exactly what I want to do. I want to use the system, just the system, not the text of anyone published PbtA games.
Then yes, as indicated, you can do that.
The thing is, I think “just the system” of PbtA is pretty hard to nail down. What would that be? Just roll + stat with 10+ being a strong hit, 7-9, being a weak hit, and 6- being a miss? Apart from that core, everything else is malleable and dependant on the intended setting. Right.
the dice thing is not central,
I rather feel that illustrates my point.
apocalypse-world.com – eventually publishing a hack
Chris Stone-Bush Undying is a diceless PbtA
Chris Stone-Bush I mean creating a structure system based in archetypes, simples stats, 2d6+stat and moves.
Oh yeah. I’m aware of all the variations of PbtA games Federico Totti. I was simply saying that I think it is difficult to nail down exactly what the system of PbtA games are because there are so many variations. Some of which are quite different from one another.
I also realize I derailed this thread by getting into a discussion of what exactly “system” means. Go and make your PbtA hack Jean Correa. 😀
Chris Stone-Bush I think it’s not difficult to nail down this stuff because there are so many games, like Dungeon World, Urban Shadows, Monsterheart, Worlds in Peril, all of these made exactly that, a PbtA system in various universes and themes.
I’m not saying it’s difficult to make a PbtA game, Jean Correa. (Or rather, it’s no more difficult than making any other kind of game.) I’m saying that so many different games fall under the PbtA umbrella that I feel it’s rather hard to pull out the common “core mechanics”.
That’s totally beside your initial question though. What kind of game are you making anyway?
Chris Stone-Bush I have some scenarios in my mind that need a system to become reality.
Do those scenarios imply a specific setting?
Chris Stone-Bush I think so. Moreover if I want to publish my scenarios, I need a system to make them work.
Chris Stone-Bush I think what mainly defines PbtA games is the ‘Moves’ trigger/consequence structure.
Given the wealth of different PbtA games out there, don’t your scenarios work with an existing game, Jean Correa? That’s usually how I do it, so going the other way around seems confusing to me.
I think you’re correct there, Federico Totti.
Hi Jean Correa! Michael Phillips and Federico Totti answered your question, so now I’ll ask one: what’s your game about? Tell us what you are excited about making! As we’ve said elsewhere many times, Vincent and I are big fans of taking what you like and hacking it to make what you love. What are you making?
Chris Stone-Bush You have a point. By the way, using an existing system would be an useful shortcut.
Meguey Baker I’m from Brazil and one of my scenarios is a fantastic one based on brazilian mythology.
Neat! I know practically nothing about Brazilian mythology. Would PCs be the mythic figures themselves or be humans dealing with the fallout from the actions of the mythic figures? What would your players do?
(Also, I expect it’s something like 3 in the morning there, so no need to answer right away!)
Meguey Baker Both of them, humans and another races together in players’ group.
Jean Correa that’s pretty cool. I only know about Afro-Brazilian mythos because my experience in Brazil is limited to Bahia (strong African cultural/religious influence).
Federico Totti This won’t be my focus. I intend to use creatures and races from brazilian indian mythology and general folklore, like Curupira, Saci, Boitata (the brazilian Dragon) etc.
“this is won’t be”? Eew kkkk sorry
Chris Stone-Bush: I see it as “10+: you did it, and something happens. 7-9: you did it for a price, or you fail with small consequences. 6 or less: something bad happens.”
Jean Correa this is exciting to me! I’d totally have interest in a game like that. I’m Canadian, but lived & worked in Brazil back in 2000 and fell a bit in love with your country.
Mattia Bulgarelli 6 or less: failure
7-9: success
10+: extraordinary success
12+: especial effects
Mo Jave Glad for hear that! I love my land, although it has too many problems. But many brazilians want to move to Canada. It’s our Shangri-lah.
Jean Correa I know a few Paulistas in the city (Toronto) who have done just that and also a few Canadians who dream of escaping to Brazil. 🙂
Let us know how your game is coming along!
Mo Jave Paulistas are a beloved People indeed.
About my RPG, nowadays I’m working at my card game project. When I finish it, I’m going to dedicate my time and my sweat to this and my other scenarios.
Vincent uses something different than CC… look in the back of the book, but basically he’s ok with it… he just did a talk about using AW’s framework to make your own game at Metatopia.
Chris S which book? Apocalypse World?
Great, look forward to hearing more when you are ready!
Jean Correa Chris S Yes. See the posts above.
Jean Correa I’d be careful with the “6 or less: failure”, that is not how I see it and I don’t think I am alone. To ME, PbtA is a system that churns out new situations. EVERY move should change the situation no matter what the outcome (6-, 7-9, 10+, 12+). The common misconception, and you may not mean this with the brief “6 or less: failure”, is that failure means not getting what you intended. That is fine, but it is important to remember that ON TOP of not getting what you intended the fictional positioning needs to change, there needs to be a reason in the fiction why you can no longer do the action you just made, what are the consequences that you now have to deal with.
To ME one of this is a core concept. It is one of the biggest changes from traditional RPGs, where failure just means your action didn’t succeed. It’s almost like every failure is a “critical failure/fumble” in more traditional games, because not only did your action not succeed but now you have to deal with this whole mess of new problems.
Sorry to further derail the topic, but I feel strongly about this, it is one of the things that make me think a PbtA game doesn’t really get the system.
I love your concept, and I want it to be as strong as possible. Make it! If ever want some advice feel free to tag me.
Yoshi Creelman Failure is just a simplified way to explain. Urban Shadows book says that on 6 or less the MC defines what happens.
I think Yoshi Creelman bullseyed the main point. In my opinion, many PbtA fall a bit short on the “every result has consequences”. While designing my sorta-PbtA, I tried my best to have all outcomes of all Moves to go somewhere.
Jean Correa, sure the MC defines what happens, but the stronger moves will always cause this to be the case. This might because the help guide the MC into possible consequences, or it might be because the move ONLY triggers when no matter the result there will be consequences.
To me, one of my biggest reasons for not wanting to ever go back to more traditional games, is I hate the feeling of “oh I failed” next player, “Can I now try?” This is especially prevelant in games where there is a big combat section of the book…
I also like how, in PbtA, the consequences for rolling < 6 are on MC's initiative, but at the same time they have a range in their impact: if the MC is not actually making a move from their list, the consequence is too mild. If the MC is making two moves from their list at once, they're overdoing it.
This ensures (if the MC understands this mechanics, that is) that the < 6 "failure" has relevant consequences ("you miss. Next?" is definitely NOT an MC move), but not too much ("rock falls, everybody dies" is definitely bigger than the scope of one move... XD ).
Small point to add in regards to what is Apocalypse World system: on the recent panel on the topic at Metatopia Vincent pointed out that real “system” of *W has much more to do with player-MC interaction, playing to find out, MC principles and such, then dice mechanics. He recently posted the presentation from the panel:
https://plus.google.com/+VincentBaker/posts/Qhbbigzw7kV