I’ve been playing the Newborn Beta playbook in a pbp, and I had a few questions about it.
1st. The move role model, is really cool, as it allows you to copy a PC you admire’s move once per session. However, it doesn’t offer any bonus for following the Nova or Doomed. Was that by intention-as in, they shouldn’t be considered role models? Those two lack moves, unless they take one with advancement from another playbook.
2nd. Lessons is a really cool mechanic. However, it’s not clear about his 4 lessons. Can he only have a max of 4 lessons? When he erases a lesson, does he have to keep the prompt, as in ‘A superhero should’ ‘I am…’ etc? Could he create a lesson without following the prompt after the campaign begins?
#1 this is a good question. For a Nova I’d say you can use Burn and the Flares they have but with your own powers – maybe a bit inspired by the Nova’s powers and typical useage.
For a Doomed I am not sure. Potentially you could use a Doomsign but that seems off somehow. You could definitely use the Move to access their Sanctuary I’d say.
#2 You can only have 4 lessons at once (otherwise it would be too much to track, especially for the GM). When you write a new lesson you don’t have to follow the prompt anymore.
Hope that helps.
T. Franzke The burn seems confusing. The thing is, you can only do 1 move a session. So you’d spend your move charging burn, and then be unable to spend it. (Although Newborn can get Nova flares through advancements). Do Flares count as moves? Does the Sanctuary count as a move? Interesting.
2. Makes sense. Thanks for the help.
1. You would use the same Flares the Nova has. But you are right – choosing a Nova or a Doomed for this Move has problems.
Sanctuary and Flares/Burn technically are Playbook specials – not moves. I don’t want to set a precedent for the Newborn getting access to Playbook Specials but with the Nova/Doomed you need to get a bit creative.
Using Burn/Flares like them or using the Sanctuary are just easy substitutes to make. We will need to think about this a bit more.
Mario Bolzoni Nicola Urbinati look at #2 by Tim, about the prompts.
When NPCs give the character new lessons, they should probably follow the prompts though – or be very similar in kind. Especially when the Newborn gives themselves a bunch of new lessons that don’t link back to how they should act as a Superhero.
Hi, I’m the other author together with T. Franzke – Thanks for helping us playtest our playbook! Keeping in mind that the playbook is still in a beta phase, I’d say this:
1. I’d be inclined to use a very expansive understanding of the word “move” for Role Model – so covering the Burns/Flares, the Doomsigns, etc. Of course some of these may be a bit hard to bring out in the fiction and flow of the game: a lot of it is up to your group. As Tim says, with some of the playbooks that only have playbook specials you need to get a bit creative: give it a go and try using them, and if you could get back in touch with us and let us know how it worked, it will help us keep polishing and refining the playbook!
2. As Tim says, 4 lessons at once – if you get a new one, you’ll need to overwrite an older one. I think the prompts are good guidance to keep the lessons simple and to the point; if you get lessons that you cannot phrase in a way that uses one of the prompt, feel free to just ignore them and write them down as you wish. Once again, if you give us more feedback as you go along, it’d be much appreciated!
Absolutely, I’d be happy to keep you informed. Thanks for writing such a cool play book. I’m trying it out in a pbp game, and so far I’ve got 3 lessons:
Superheroes should always wear a cape (which is why he gets frustrated none of the team wears capes)
Always announce your plans in a grandiose manner (he’s a robot who was built be a silver age super villain)
I am created with a purpose I must fulfil (which is awkward, because he doesn’t know what his purpose is)
Let’s see how the game progresses. Maybe my GM will let me treat my hold as a substitute for one doom point/burn.
Yes, that’s a good way to see it – by spending your hold you’re doing things in the way your role model would, so you get to use one of their moves. If you used it for one of the burns or doom powers, you wouldn’t need to spend a burn or a doomsign, because of course you don’t have them!
Also thanks for the kind words and the interest, I’m happy you like the concept! And I love love the second lesson 😀
Not to be too nosy but, can you tell us a bit about your Newborn?
T. Franzke Well it’s a pbp. so you can read about him if you have time, but sure I can give a brief overview.
Socket is an 8 foot tall yellow android, whose frame is composed of Neotronium Compound (Superhuman Durability). He can produce cables from his body that lets him plug into various electronics, and restrain enemies. (Superhuman elasticity).
He’s suffering from amnesia-he can’t remember anything clearly since before he woke up in the middle of a fight between his new team and a supervillain. He was found in a lab within a shady tech company, that the tech company claims they knew nothing about. Which is confusing, because Socket claims the man he remembers creating him is a super villain (whose in prison).
He’s a very curious but friendly little robot, always following the lead of others. He’s also the mascot for an internet cafe called Rock’em Sockets.
Are there any specific questions you have? Do you want me to link you to the game thread to read?
Thanks! Socket is a cool character and I understand how the Newborn works much better now. Will we get MC Moves for the beta playbooks too, eventually?
That’s certainly the plan! How’s your game going?
Alberto Muti T. Franzke Hey there! I’m Chirag’s GM, Razade or I guess Kyle works here! I think the game is going well but I’d never like to over-inflate myself. You can find the game here (shame on Chirag for not sharing the link in the first place). As promised, he has indeed tried to use this and I am reporting how I am ruling on this event.
giantitp.com – San Fransapporo (Masks: A New Generation IC)
On to the question at hand. I suppose this is why the Newborn is in Beta-Test but from my understanding of the rules (and I certainly bow to your superior knowledge of how you intended these things to be used) Socket, and any other Newborn, doesn’t actually qualify for using the Doom’s or Nova’s Doomsigns and Burn respectively.
The Doom’ds Doom Signs are a direct link to their Doom. They’re a manifestation of their impending demise. That’s why they have to mark their Doom Track before they can use the move. A Newborn doesn’t have a Doom Track, thus they fail to meet the requirements of using the move. It’d be like in Dungeons and Dragons with a Fighter trying to cast Wish from a 9th level spell slot because they have some method of “using another class ability”. Same goes with the Nova.
I feel, however, if they could qualify for these things then they could use their Doom Signs and Flares. If a Newborn somehow got a Doom Track (or took the Advancement for their own Burn) they could use any Flare or Burn they didn’t have access to.
Edit: I should also add the phrasing of “no mechanical benefit” line that Chirag has used might be just a little over-dramatic. Both the Doomed and the Nova are afforded at least two non-Playbook Moves to pick from from Advancing. So they can still work as targets of Role Model. I understand it might suck if you’re in a group of three and your other two members are a Doomed and a Nova but…you do get six moves to pick from and you can always pick Role Model once it’s usable in this very strange hypothetical. If a typical party for Masks is four players you’re always going to have at least one person to have as your Role Model and that gives you at least two or three moves to pick from ignoring that that number could easily reach eight before anyone even started eyeing a new Playbook.
Thoughts? Am I being too hardline?
Hi there! sorry for the delay, Tim and I took a moment to discuss the issue.
We see your points, and definitely there’s a bit of an awkward fit to work around with the Nova’s burns and the Doomed’s doomsigns. That said, despite a different nomenclature, and some added complications (there’s a currency of sorts – spending burns or marking on the doomtrack – involved in both the problem cases), Flares and Doomsigns are still essentially moves – there’s a situational trigger, and procedures that lead you to a combination of mechanical and fictional outcomes. Thematically, the move is about imitating the behavior of your role model, and flares and doomsigns can still be leveraged to that effect, if you look at their fictional outcomes. For the next stage of the playbook’s development, we’ll have to find a way to smooth that out, or abandon that move and replace it with something else (I don’t really think it would make sense to keep it if it can’t cover two of the main playbooks).
In the meantime, our recommendations would be to run with it and include flares and doomsigns under the move. We recognise this may lead to a couple moments where you need to stop and understand how that would work, and potentially to a couple of awkward questions – we’d be grateful if you could write that all up and send it our way. The Newborn is still in a playtest stage, after all, and while we did our best to make the playbook as solid as we could, there are still problems and solutions that can only be found through play. We would be very grateful if you could help us with that.
Of course, you don’t owe us any of that – if you as a group would rather not engage with that part of the process, I’d probably encourage you to drop the move entirely from your game and choose another one from the playbook for the character.
Thank you for taking the time to respond! Always good to get feedback from the creators! However I must admit I find issue with the recommendation. At the risk of repeating my understanding, or offending, the issue seems rather clear cut.
Specific beats General when it comes to most games. I don’t think a Powered by the Apocalypse chassis negates that. Both Burn and the Doom Signs (thematically) and mechanically ask for a little more than a typical move and it makes complete sense to me how their core mechanic would be out of the purview of the Newborn.
The Doomsigns are linked explicitly to the Doom’s…Doom. They’re not just moves like what the Janus has. They’re evidence that the Doomed is running out of time. Ignoring the twisting and bending it would take to make sense to hammer Role Model into working (and it’s always going to be a case by case basis since every game is different yes?) it simply falls to cost. The Doomed’s abilities are balanced with a Doom Track advancement. They’re potent powers but they’ve got a drawback. Also as pointed out, the Newborn lacks a Doomtrack. They can’t fulfill the requirement of the move.
Also also as pointed out, the Newborn isn’t missing out on two playbooks. Both the Nova and the Doomed gain access to other Playbook moves through advancement. Surely the Newborn can access those? If you’re concerned that they’re missing out on The Doomed and The Nova’s playbook mechanic do you feel similar to the Newborn missing out on The Bull’s Heart? What about The Joined’s Form of, Shape of? Those are moves just as much if not more so than anything the Doomed or the Nova get. The difference is both the Bull and Joined get actual moves at the start while The Nova and Doomed do not. I don’t, however, see why the Nova and Doomed then have to somehow be juryrigged to fit nicely while the other two aren’t in consideration. Certainly a move shouldn’t need to apply to every character at all times and always?
The tl;dr, to me, is: Newborn can use Playbook Moves as specified by Role Model. Doomsign and Flares are not Playbook Moves and specify a cost the Newborn can’t pay. Thus, they can’t use either until they can. They can use any Playbook Move the Doomed and Nova have from Advances like any other Playbook move.
Not that I wish to tell you you’re wrong but the above just seems the most logical, if not logical at least understandable, way to use Role Model. We’ll certainly keep testing the Playbook however and if a situation arises where that ruling changes I’d be more than happy to let you guys know.
Technically, the Role Model move does come with a cost. It’s cost is that it can be only used once per session. That cost is what the creators mentioned served as a substitute for taking a doom/spending a flare. You’re still using up a finite resource.
Just to repeat, I’m not arguing against you GM. I’ll abide by your ruling. I just wanted to clarify that the Newborn is paying a cost, even though it’s not the explicit cost listed on the other playbooks.
So let’s have a look at the Doomsigns and Flares specifically. Keeping in mind that the Newborn can only do this once per session, what does it get them?
Dark Visions they can have a vision once per session. This might be the most powerful of all the options. However another character with the right powers or right tech might be able to do the same thing anyway without marking Doom as well so there is nothing inherently broken about this.
Infinite Power this move already kinda replicates this ability so I don’t really see that big a problem with this.
Portal Once per session appear in another scene? Not gamebreaking at all.
Burning Bright This seems useless.
Bolstered Using 1 adult move per session is powerful but so would be to use some other very strong playbook move once per session
Most of the Nova’s flares come down to rolling an Unleash your powers with a guaranteed 10+ anyway. Doing that for free once per session doesn’t seem gamebreaking to me.
In the end it comes down to what you at the table agree on. If your Doomed feels that it takes away too much from their character and their pain/cost than don’t let the Newborn use Doomsigns as an option. If they are okay with it try it and see where it goes. Maybe you can define a Doom for the Newborn as well and it creates an interesting story development.
Same with the Nova. However so many Playbooks can take Burn/Flares that this shouldn’t really be that big of a problem I personally think.
In the end the game is a conversation and the rules help you to have the conversation you want. We don’t think that using Playbook extras in addition to moves in these cases will lead to many problems BUT we haven’t testet it yet and it depends on the people you ask.
Make the call that feels right for your game but also speak to everyone involved.
T. Franzke, how this move kinda replicates Infinite Powers? This move lets you use one move of your model, while Infinite Powers let you use any ability of any playbook (abilities, not moves), so they seem to be quite different to me.
Yeah that is true.
Mauro Ghibaudo T. Franzke Indeed, Infinite Power is much more like Belong in Two Worlds from the Outsider (which the Newborn could presumably use with Role Model). The differnce is that Belong in Two Worlds can fail. Infinite Power cannot, hence the Doom Track being marked. It’s there to deter being used over and over.
Which again, still wouldn’t be an issue in this case, because Role Model can only be used once per session. Also, the Newborn has its own move to expand its power set, arguably even more flexible.
I agree with Tim that definitely the move is not “too strong”.
On the level of character themes and how things happen in the fiction of the game, my reasoning in claiming that it makes sense to apply it to these special moves is that the Newborn replicates behaviour it sees in other, so you’re not acting like that because your doom is impending, but because you’re imitating someone whose doom is impending.
On a procedural/mechanical level, the move as it is has a bump that needs to be ignored or worked around to flow smoothly in these two edge cases.
For both these levels, your mileage may vary in terms of what you find credible vs. what you find disruptive, and thus you may wish to include or exclude the move from play accordingly. I encourage you to take this decision as a group, understanding what each player feels about it and wishes (the MC being a player exactly like everyone else at the table, not more and not less). My only caveat is that deciding that the move will not apply to one of the characters and then leaving it in the game opens the gates to situations that are, I feel, potentially more awkward and unfair to the player, so if you decide to go for a very restrictive interpretation, as I said already, my recommendation is to scrap this move entirely and have the player choose another for their character.