Hey all — Love your thoughts on this. I’d like to figure out how to address scale in PbtA games.

Hey all — Love your thoughts on this. I’d like to figure out how to address scale in PbtA games.

Hey all — Love your thoughts on this. I’d like to figure out how to address scale in PbtA games.

I’m playing around with some ideas but I keep getting tripped up on scales of play. For an easy example, some may recall the WEG Star Wars game where everything had a scale, and you increased or decreased die rolls, damage, etc. based on that scale. Or the “scale” between superheroes and normals as another example. In other words, what are the mechanical implications of scale in a PbtA game?

9 thoughts on “Hey all — Love your thoughts on this. I’d like to figure out how to address scale in PbtA games.”

  1. Start and end in the Fiction. If the moves don’t sound like they trigger from the fiction you are telling I see 3 options:

    1. Keep going in the fiction until you get to where those moves trigger (might require other moves in between just to get there). This basically boils down to breaking large scale tasks into smaller more accomplishable goals that will trigger moves. Or just letting certain small scale fiction happen. It’s about being honest with the story you are trying to tell.

    2. Write a custom move for the thing you want to be doing. So you have moves to tell the story you are trying to tell.

    3. Step back and talk it out with all players, (and possibly change games) “Hey I really want to be seeing the action at this scale/level, the moves for this game don’t quite fit. Am I the only one who wants to see this scale? Should we write custom moves? Should we play a different system?”

    Adam Koebel on his most recent “Office Hours” talks about scale in PBtA, it might be useful to you, https://youtu.be/37fqOsFUxa4?t=348.

  2. Is this something that could be written into the move? For example, in moves like Hack & Slash for Dungeon World, you have to actually be able to damage the target for the move to trigger.

    Scale could work the same way. Moves only trigger if you are capable of affecting whatever scale your acting against.

    It sort of echoes what Yoshi Creelman​ says about starting and ending with the fiction. Players need to ask themselves “based on the scale of things involved, does this make sense?”

  4. I think the ptba games themselves set the scales. In AW, characters are larger than life compared to npc’s. The are the be all end all of badassery. The tension comes from when you act, it has huge impacts and causing everyone to take notice. Meanwhile in the hood you play low life’s of barely any importance. If you are noticed, somebody will put an end to your criminal career. Most games fall between these two, but really with the game setting the stakes, it effectively sets the scale.

  5. I would specifically recommend that you check out “World of Metal and Bone” by Exploding Rogue. They have a beautiful set of moves the handle scale. One move is when you have the advantage (Yes, but there is a concession for the smaller one). One move is when you are on par. One move is when you have the disadvantage means that if you succeed, you get to choose the concessions.

    It’s exactly the solution you might be looking for. Also a great game.

  6. Aaron Griffin gang size was how I planned to do starship scale should I ever run Apocalypse Space. Sub-gang is a fighter, shuttle or corvette, small gang is a frigate and so on, using the EVE progression.

    But yeah, let it flow from the fiction. Use custom moves for exceptional cases.

  8. Maybe look at Mouse Guard’s Hierarchy of Size, or Torchbearer’s Hierarchy of Might (I think that’s what they’re called).

    Basically, each thing has a scale value. The types of conflict you can use is limited by your relative size/might.

    Like, a mouse can Fight a weasel or a even a snake, but can only Flee or Drive Off a wolf or cougar.

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