Started my first game of Masks yesterday, and there was much discussion about how changing someone’s Labels is not necessarily real fun for the player, as it risks deprotaginazation. It left us with a couple questions:
– when a move allows a PC to change another PC’s Labels, do they have to?
– a player can choose to reject the influence, but we’re wondering how that works in the end of session moves, since there’s no actual RP happening at that moment.
How do you feel does it lead to deprotaginazation?
When you trigger a move in the fiction, resolve it. So, if someone says something and they have influence over a PC, dive in and ask “oh man, I think you just told them how the world works or who they should be.” And then, yes, you have to shift their labels. It happened in the fiction, you have to resolve the move that was triggered.
I don’t think its possible to Reject the Influence at the end of the session, for exactly the reason you say. There’s not fiction happening at that moment, you just have to go with it.
As for deprotagonization, while mileage will always vary, there’s a simple solution here: if your PC’s danger goes down, but you’re like really really emphatic that “NO WAY I’M VICIOUS” there is an easy solution. Roleplay being vicious. Be terrifying. Be reckless. Your danger will be bumped right back up, don’t you worry. And let this fuel your characters, as they rebel against what people tell them they are… and inevitably overreact.
Telling people who they really are is pretty intense. It was telling that the two women in the group had the biggest issue with it.
It’s not necessarily fun for which player? The one changing someone’s labels, or the one whose labels are changing?
– The rules seem to imply that they do have to shift their labels, though I suppose you could houserule that they don’t if you really wanted to. I’d highly advise against that, because shifting labels through influence is such a core idea of the game.
– I don’t understand. The end of session moves don’t say anything about rejecting someone’s influence. If you’re talking about the “Grow away from the team” option, that’s not Rejecting Someone’s Influence, that’s simply taking it away. If you’re asking for some other reason, then I would simply say that you can’t reject someone’s influence in the absence of RP.
If you choose “Grow closer to the team”, you give someone Influence. If they already had it, they shift your Labels.
As far as which, kind of both. The dislike is so intense, they don;t want to inflict it on others, even if the target doesn’t mind.
That’s fair! If I had to fashion a response to that, it would be because your stats are in motion, ultimately, they’re saying who they want you to be, and you’re more than free to lash out, go nuts, kick and scream, or do whatever it takes to rub their noses in being wrong. I mean, that may not be a very gratifying answer, but I think it might help reframe things since, as a matter of play, players do have the opportunity to lock their labels… and that, in the end, is telling people who you really, really are.
I interpreted the game as being about resisting or bowing to that influence from others. You’re right, telling someone who they are is a pretty big deal – which makes it all the better when you rebel against it.
If they’re against the very idea of someone else being able to shift their stats, then unfortunately, Masks may not be the right system for them and that’s pretty much that. Influence and the ability to shift stats is core to the theme of the game.
If their problem is the way it’s presented, then it might help to tell them that the labels are meant to embody the conflict of how the character sees themselves, vs how the world sees them. That type of conflict and “why would you say that?!” is meant to be part of the game. There’s plenty – plenty – of ways to reverse a shift they didn’t like, and later the ability to lock labels means those labels can’t be shifted at all.
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You can’t reflect influence during the end-of-session moves.
By saying “I grew closer to the team, and X was the biggest reason” you have already acknowledged that they had an influence on you. You just (re)granted it to them! You can’t then turn around and then say “just kidding”.
If you want to have control over how your traits change, then clearly you are growing into your own vision of yourself and not growing closer to the team. Choose that option instead.
I’ve played with g-g-g-irls (cis and nonbinary) who had a range of reactions to Influence, so I don’t know if it’s “telling” that your players disliked it.
Maybe it’s the way you framed it? Influence isn’t mystical power over someone; it’s the voice in your head, whether it’s Uncle Ben, Draco Malfoy or Obi-wan telling you who you are.
Greg Trent nailed it. Masks is a game where teen supers are told what to do and who they are and have to accept or reject it.
I’m curious about how they reacted to Label shift and if you know why they felt that way. Can you offer more information?
At some level, Masks characters don’t have control over how they see themselves. Over time, they will cement their idea of self, but when things start out they’re pretty susceptible to the opinions of others. You shift another PC’s Labels because your words and actions matter to them, so you can change how they see themselves even if you don’t mean to. So in answer to your question, you must shift someone’s Labels when a move tells you to, just like how you must mark a condition when a move tells you to.
Rejecting Influence requires action, so yes, you can’t reject Influence during the end of session moves. If you don’t want to give Influence to someone during the end of session moves, you can choose a different option, like growing into your own image of yourself. That way, you’ll get to shift your own Labels, for sure.
And if you still want to give the Influence out and take a Label shift for it, you can adjust those Labels yourself through the game’s other means, ranging from rejecting their Influence later, to defending someone, to comforting or supporting someone, and so on.
Young Justice S1:E5 “Schooled”
In this episode’s opening scene, a bridge collapses and people are put at risk. Superman shows up to help and while he is repairing the bridge, Superboy shows up to help people, too. When the rescuing is all done, Superman (who has Influence over Superboy), tries to shift Superboy’s Danger up and his Savior down. Superboy tries to reject his influence and Misses… Superman blows him off and flies away. GM tells Superboy to mark the Angry Condition (big surprise there — Superboy’s perpetually angry!) and shifts his Danger up and his Savior down.
Back at the cave, Black Canary is teaching some hand-to-hand combat techniques. Superboy believes his superior strength means he doesn’t need to learn how to fight. Black Canary schools him, but doesn’t try to exert her influence over him (she’s cool like that). Then they have to go on a mission.
During the mission, Superboy and Robin have a conversation about what Black Canary told them about controlling conflicts. Robin tells him how the world works and since Robin has influence over Superboy, he’s trying to shift his Danger down and his Superior up. Superboy successfully reject his influence, marks potential, and speeds off on his motorcycle while popping a wheelie! In the ensuing fight, Superboy continues to act recklessly using his Bull’s move “Punch Everything.”
Long story short… by the end of the episode, he clears his Angry Condition, Shifts his Superior up and his Danger down, and decides to work on his training with Black Canary.
That’s how Influence works… and I don’t see anything disempowering about that at all. In fact, the entire episode is about Superboy’s empowerment and his learning to become a better hero.
Yeah, what people said, Labels are getting pushed around all the time anyway. Although I also think a little OOC interaction can help, similar to what happens at most tables when playing Apocalypse World and it’s time to highlight each other’s stats. “Dude. Seriously?”
Joe Beason I’m curious how this went in further sessions… Did you have further sessions? Were the players able to overcome their apprehensions? Was anything we said here helpful? Thanks so much for your time! 🙂
The game has gone fairly well. Folks made their peace with the label shifts. There’s interest in having more slice of life moments, as opposed to superheroics, so we’ve tried having more of that. I’ve also gotten a request for harder scene framing, which is a weakness of mine.
We’ve had four sessions, and have a fifth planned. After that, peoples’ schedules get wonky, so we’ll need to decide if we want to wrap at five, or continue with folks dropping in and out.
And, yes, y’all were very helpful. Thanks!