An interesting observation.
I am finding it actually uncomfortable to apply the stereotypes to the Shadow. Nothing really over the top, but specifically my players have chosen for one of the Shadow;’s servants to be “Women corrupted into idols and objects of veneration”.
I have thought of a couple ways to represent that in the game . . . just every time I sit down to flesh it out just a little . . . I feel, icky.
Does anyone else experience this? lol
Also, would anyone mind giving me some feedback once I settle on something. I really want these elements of my game to make an impression
I mean, yes? That’s kinda the point, to highlight the problems with toxic culture, especially toxic masculinity. What you’re feeling is normal, because it is icky.
Feedback away! I’m down.
Jerry Ozbun Yup! What Drew says is pretty much our intentions. That uncomfortable play is what we designed for, because confronting internalized sexism should be uncomfortable!
If it helps, any time I’ve had female shadow servants, I have made it explicit that they were women who allowed themselves to be corrupted to gain power. Because that’s the thing about internalized misogyny and power – there are ALWAYS women who are willing to make that devil’s bargain in order to gain more power.
And sure, feedback is always great.
Sounds unpleasant. What about looking toward statues for inspiration? I am thinking of fertility and Hindu goddesses, the Statue of Liberty, even Christian icons. Twisting or mirroring their society’s own idols would be another take on the same concept.
Steve Moore Oh, I like that Steve! Hitting them in the culture bone!
Okay good . . . I figured that there would be uncomfortable moments in play. I just didn’t expect to run into it during my world building as much as I have. Likely a bit naive of me 🙂
THAT is an excellent angle Anna. I was wondering how best to give that over and I really like that. Thank you so much.
I had touched on the idea of using statues as inspiration at one point, but I love the idea of using the fertility iconography. Thanks Steve. 🙂
I really appreciate this community. 🙂
Jerry Ozbun Glad we could help! I am DIGGING the amount of enthusiasm that you’re bringing to this. 😀
Jerry Ozbun and when I mentioned “their own society” I was referring to whatever they had developed in-game for themselves. Their character’s revered heroes, their spiritual or military leader, etc.
I’m late to the game here. The GM has to be the heavy. That’s part of why I like to mix it up and play sometimes. Our role is to be all the villains, to make the PCs life dramatic, terrifying, and meaningful. Your role as antagonist gives them a mirror to see themselves and perilous stairway to heroism. It sometimes helps me to talk with the players ahead of time and express this, so I can feel some distance from the awful things I do.
I like that this thread went to culture and specifics. I find that tying everything to the culture of the shadow and the clans makes everything feel more real and specific.
Okay, so here is what I have come up with. Hopefully these make sense. I would really appreciate any feedback in the event that my cishetness is shining like a beacon, or if I am being too heavy handed.
On the battlefield:
Early in the campaign, on the battlefield Shadow-held women are represented as tool that enables the army of the Shadow to perform as well as a tool that demoralizes and grinds down the will of enemy forces.
Whispers
Women who have undergone a change to represent everything wrong with the iconography that the clans hold as sacred.
These women warp their own appearance to appear as an icon of whatever spiritual belief that a clan woman cares about, but corrupted, not right, leaving a slimy tainted feeling behind.
These women will move among the men of the Shadow, speaking to them in voices that deaden the emotions of the men and keep them under control.
Reality warping will allow snippets of their words to reach the characters. They will never be able to hear more than a few words of the Whisper unless they capture one to interrogate.
If a player attempts to actually engage in conversation with a Whisper, they may have to role to Resist the Shadow depending on how the PC interacts. (still thinking this over).
If attacked the Whisper will fly into an emotional storm of rage, hate, hysteria, sadness, and try (ineffectually) to defend themselves.
Dolems
Women who are literally placed on a pedestal on the battlefield, like a set piece.
These women are at the front lines, as if to shield the forces of the Shadow.
The ones placed on pedestals in battle, are always women of the Clans.
They have not been physically altered.
The pedestal makes their voices carry across large distances (amplifying the voices of the shadow held)
Their words have a ring of conviction even when they say something obviously ridiculous. They make claims like; They only want to care for the clans women, protect them, keep them, cherish them, etc.
These words sound very convincing, like they really mean it. Because the Shadow amplifies their voices, they could convince a small group of civilians to join the Shadow. Arrayed against an opposing force they become a demoralizing agent.
These women on platforms are difficult to remove. Any attacks directed at these women will be redirected to a nearby man (reality warping) which kills him.
As the blow lands, the character sees the blow hit the man and part of the Sorcerous spell twists the perceptions of the attacker to see the man as someone they know, but not every time.
As the campaign progresses, I will add new powers and twists to the Servants as well as adding new servants.
{deep breath} okay that’s it so far. Am I doing ok? I came up with something for some Agents of the shadow as well from this, I’ll post them below this reply.
Off the battlefield
Off the battlefield these will be represented as agents of Shadow.
The first difficulty introduced by Agents of the Shadow that the characters will come across will be the Doula’s. In the context of this game a Doula is a shamanistic role that most clans had in some form and at this point all have adopted the practice for political expediency as the united clans. If I need to tie the Doula’s to a clan I will tie them to the Dothas.
Traditionally the Doula’s role was to be like a Therapist/Midwife that helped with anything reproductive. menstruation, sexual problems, pregnancy (wanted or unwanted), etc.
Now some Doula’s have been tainted by the shadow. They are starting to advocate powerfully for more strict adherence to practices that were discarded long ago such as:
Isolation during menstruation.
A ban on masturbation because it “dulls the female spirit” or some other claptrap.
Sexual promiscuity discouraged
Pregnant women should be isolated and forced into bed rest for the good of the child
Public breastfeeding is not allowed
Reproductive control. Doula’s stop providing services to women who do not want a pregnancy.
These will start out as simple discouragement of and light shaming of the activity, and as the game progresses these will progress until they become larger elements. For instance, at first the Doula’s will just start suggesting that women “should keep their menstruation problems to themselves” which will progress to Doula’s attempting to pass a policy saying that discussing menstruation in public can get you in trouble for indecency, and finally a policy that requires any woman menstruating to isolate themselves from all other people except during active battle campaigns, in which menstruating women must pitch their tents away from the rest of the forces and be monitored by a Doula.
Am I thinking too much on these? Am I over-prepping things?
I’ll need more time to go over this all and digest, but initial skim gives me one worry. There is a lot about the women who might serve The Shadow. Is there equally as much about the other clan members too and we’re just not seeing it? My worry is this one aspect you’re posting about seems, I struggle for the right word here, but maybe go with the simple word, sexist? Like, just feels anti-woman to me right now.
Like I said, I need to know if there is more to your work other than what’s been presented here alone; for obvious reasons.
Andrew Medeiros Absolutely a valid question and I appreciate you being willing to put it out there.
I had a sort of outline for the men and women servants. I am less confident of getting the women right without getting too heavy handed and so I decided I should post about them first.
I have moved on to fleshing out the men Servants now. The men servants are “Men hollowed into automatons who never eat or sleep.”, so that lends itself to some pretty simple tropes that I am trying to avoid falling into that make them less impactful as the women.
It may come to pass that I am overthinking things and maybe I should scale back the women side of things. Maybe I ned to ditch these concepts entirely and that’s fine.
Hopefully I am making sense. I really don’t want to mess this up, so I am absolutely open to criticism if I am missing the mark, and I truly appreciate your engagement.
Hey, just want to weigh in and say, like. Yeah, it’s great to focus on what you want the Shadow to be and do, but like – don’t get bogged down too much in what it looks like, and especially don’t center your thinking about the Shadow’s servants on just the women. Because the women who have completely given themselves over and surrendered should be few and far between! For guidance, think of the female representation in Trump’s White House. That should be your mental reference for how much air time should be spent on the female collaborators.
Also, while the stuff in your first post seemed mostly fine, the stuff in your second post had a lot of whiffs of biological essentialism. Tying womanhood to birth and menstruation is delegitimizing to the validity of trans gender identity. I would focus more on interpersonal behaviors and moral codes of conduct minus judgements on how people own and operate bodies.
Also, side note: it’s good to allow room to discover what your PLAYERS find unsettling, and then say “oh okay, so the Shadow is obviously LOTS OF THAT”.
Okay, thank you both very much. It sounds like I missed the mark in a few places and I need to rework the whole thing.
Thank you for your candor, and your kindness.
Anna is smart and is saying smart things, listen to her thoughts for sure.
Andrew Medeiros
You are absolutely right, as-is Anna. I am embarrassed that I got things that wrong.
I’m leaving the post since maybe another possible GM could take some lessons from my screwups. I’m sorry I took up so much of your time on this.
So after rereading through my current work and this thread (a number of times), a lot of this comes down to me trying to nail down too much too soon. I got very focused on specific aspects of the game and I realize now I lost sight of some of the principles of the MC.
Instead of trying to get into the details of these aspects of the game, I need to do a better job of sticking to the broader concepts and letting the details evolve as a part of play, and listening to my players.
Thank you again Anna and Andrew for your patience. You do a great job here and I appreciate it.
I think that’s the better approach for sure, but I’m a lazy MC so I of course support the least amount of homework as possible. Also, a lot of other great voices contributed to this thread, they deserve to be noted as well. 🙂
You are absolutely correct. Bryanna and Steve thank you to both of you as well. ALL of the posts on this thread are going to help make my game better!
I’ve always been a rather heavy prep GM, and I am quite used to it biting me in the nethers on occasion. XD
Have a great day everyone!!