This may be a bit backwards-looking, but can skills exist in PbtA?
The simplest form of this would be a move like the following:
“You are skilled in A, B, and C (out of a field of a through H). When you undertake a task in a field that you are skilled in, roll+a stat.
What could this move look like? What would a 7-9 result be? I’d like something more interesting than Act Under Fire/Defy Danger. The Sprawl has an interesting mechanic that awards a little metacurrency on a 10+ (gear or intel) for the Hit The Street move. What else is there?
“When you undertake a task in a field you are skilled in…” is a pretty broad trigger. Unless you narrow the action down to something more specific, I think you’ll end up with a move like Act Under Fire or Defy Danger; a move where the results are largely left up to the players/GM to interpret.
I’m not saying that’s a bad thing. I just don’t really think you can make a move with more specific results when the trigger is so broad.
So, maybe a slightly different angle: Maybe “skills” don’t grant moves, moves are already there and defined. But having a skill may grant you a bonus on rolls if you can explain how the move you’re doing uses that skill.
By way of an example: in The Sprawl having a Stealth Suit doesn’t enable you to do any special moves like what the OP is talking about, instead anytime I can describe how what I’m doing is stealth-related when I make a move I get a +1 for the roll.
Skills as moves with an ongoing effect.
When you study under a master luthier, take +1 ongoing to spout lore about an instrument.
Skills as a move that gives you holds when you practice/train.
When you spend down time studying locks and keys, hold 3. Hold may be spent, one for one, to unlock something that is sealed.
Skills as tags.
When you forge a blade, give it the ‘handcrafted’ tag.
Skills as a special case of Defy Danger.
When you use a skill from your list, ask the gm what’s at stake and then Defy Danger.
Skills as an extra stat you can roll on.
Roll +SKILLS
Skills as an end of session questions for xp.
Mark xp if you used a skill this session.
World of Dungeons uses a skill list, with the very simple rule that “When do something risky related to your skill, you always succeed, even on a miss. But on a miss, the GM will choose a particularly bad cost or complication.”
(Or something like that.)
Another way you could do this would be a list of skills that simply make certain things possible. Like, if you don’t have Pilot you can’t fly a plane (or if you do, you’re Defying Danger to do anything). So they’re basically tags on your character sheet that pre-establish fictional positioning.
The question becomes: why? What are hoping to get from a skill list? What do you think it adds that most PbtA games are lacking?
Jeremy Strandberg Fair question. Skilled characters fit the niche of someone who isn’t expert in either weapons or magic, i.e., a rogue-style character. What I’m looking to do is make a broad base playbook that is heavily customizable by choices. In this case, a rogue would bring some useful skills to the group, things like tracking, lockpicking, information gathering, negotiation… Stuff that doesn’t fit under the general sphere of fighting or magic.
To address the second point, I think yes, this would be establishing the position that the character is skilled in their chosen fields. Bearing that in mind, I do like that World of Dungeons idea, but some of Marshall’s ideas are good too. Hmm.
Yeah, to me it’s a matter of making each Skill its own Move, basically. Don’t write one rule for all possible Skills. Write a custom set of possibilities for each individual Skill.
Peter J I remember trying something like that (a skill list, skills simply making something possible vs better or having specific moves, different playbooks having different #s and choices for skills). I ended up scrapping it in favor of what As If is talking about, plus a series of “history” questions to help establish backstory and what sorts of skills/trades would be plausible.
Really? Would you be willing to share?
What? The scrapped stuff? I don’t think there’s anything left but scattered notes.
If you’re looking for the final things it evolved into, I can throw a link up tomorrow when I’ve got access to my computer.
Here are some examples from my own Other Borders, a DramaSystem game which uses a 1d6-plus-stat mechanic based on PbtA…
Break In
When you break into a place with intent to burgle or spy, roll Sneaking.
On a 6+, all 3 results below will occur.
On a 3-5, choose 2.
· You leave no evidence you were there.
· You gain Money or something of value.
· No alarm is raised.
On a 2-, the GM decides what happens.
Papers, Please
When you falsify documentation, roll Making.
On a 6+, you forge the documents required.
On a 3-5, choose one drawback below.
On a 2-, choose 2.
· The forgeries are perfect but costly: 1 Money.
· They won’t fool anyone for long; they only work once.
· They attract attention from the law, now or later.
Pickpocket
When you try to pick someone’s pocket, roll Sneaking.
On a 6+, you get the item you want without complications.
On a 3-5, choose 2 results from the list below.
On a 2-, choose 1:
· you get the item you wanted.
· no one notices what you’re up to.
· later on, the mark can’t be sure when or where the pickpocketing took place.
Create Novena Candle
The flame of a properly-prepared novena candle pierces the veil between this world and the spirit world, creating a channel for petitions to reach their intended entities. To create a novena candle, select a color (see sidebar), then spend 4 hours and roll Magia or Making.
On a 6+, your candle is exceptional and the user will get a +1 on their roll.
On a 3-5, your candle is satisfactory.
On a 2-, your candle will burn poorly and fail to work.
Skills could also work as narrative elements, the way superpowers work in Masks. There’s in masks you can *unleash your powers* to overcome an obstacle, reshape your environment, or extend your senses, with one of the basic moves, but using your powers to do things that aren’t that triggers other basic moves instead.
A thing that occurs to me is that “skill” as it’s defined in D&D and related games is a fairly arbitrary category. Sure in newer editions of D&D, it refers to areas of training or expertise that aren’t magic or fighting–but in other games, fighting and magic are skills. On some level, the questions for the rogue playbook you describe aren’t about what skills they have, but how they use skills to solve problems.
I wrote a set of moves for a fantasy PbtA game that I haven’t got around to doing anything with, but it uses something like skill. When you do something that falls within your area of skill you can spend a meta-currency called Prowess to automatically succeed (meaning treat it as a 10+ if you would trigger another move) or else roll the move if you choose not to spend Prowess. It seemed to work well on the little playtesting I have done.
The rules are here under Circles of Prowess and the Show of Prowess move:
drive.google.com – Hero_World_2.1.pdf – Google Drive
Anything can exist in PbtA.
I don’t think they advertise them as PbtA games, but Mutant Year Zero, Coriolis, and Tales from the Loop all read to me like PbtA games with skills.
I’ve also used the World of Dungeons method at the table (6- isn’t a miss, just a bigger cost) and also skills giving “advantage” (roll an extra die, ignore the worst one). Those worked fine too.
I think most PbtA games I’ve played conceptualize skills in terms of special moves, as described above. For an interesting example of how someone adapted a skill based game (Eclipse Phase) into this system, see eclipse-phase-apocalypse.obsidianportal.com – Moves.
My personal opinion is that there is such a thing as too many moves, though, and you have to be careful to make “skill moves” feel better or more effective than a generic “defy danger” move if you have one of those. If you DON’T have a generic move, or it ISN’T clearly inferior to the custom move, but you DO have a long skill list, the group kind of has to keep track of a lot and question whether the move is worth having any all. (Like: “Oh yeah, sorry, I shouldn’t have let YOU hack that computer, that’s restricted to the hacking move I forgot we had until Pat took that move just now. Uh, from now on, Pat’s the only one who can hack, I guess.”)
I mean, this is what stats are—a thing that modifies how good you are at doing a particular set of moves.
Go look at Levi Kornelsen ‘s stakes cards. Several of the systems built with it basically do what you describe.
The Malandros branch of DramaSystem (from which my above samples are taken) uses “Common Moves” which can be learned by characters of any type (class). These are effectively Skills. They look the same as Class-based PbtA Moves, but rather than being drawn from character classes they are drawn from the genre as a whole.
Masks does it. It’s called Powers, not Skills, but that doesn’t matter. Exceptional training or talent works in the same way. Works like this:
– You can do those things. When you do them while triggering another move, use that move. So if you are Deadshot and shoot, you roll to Engage.
– There is also an Unleash Your Powers move that let’s you do other things with your powers.
Oh! And I just saw — I can’t remember where right now — a great model for improved skill with moves.
It was something like this:
Skill proficiency: when (skill is in play) treat a roll of 6- as a 7.
Skill expertise: when (skill is in play) don’t roll — this isn’t a challenge for you. If you need a mechanical Philip, just use the 10+ result.
PbtA games are like diceless games that sometimes reach for the dice. Skill Expertise points up in the fiction when certain things stop being uncertain and worth rolling for.