Question on the Hollow’s move Blank Canvas
“When you take an action that embodies one of the Conditions that you have, and you allow that Condition to influence your sense of self, cross it off and add 1 to your roll.”
The question I have is with the wording “Cross it off”. Most other skins use deliberate terminology, but this is a fan skin and my players and I are wondering if it means the same as “Lose that condition” or “Stop you from using that one again for the bonus.
Generally, remove it and don’t use it again.
Yes, it means you just have to remove that condition as usual. 😉
Got it… yet another thing I will have to tweak in the future to make an interesting skin not OP
I don’t think it’s OP either way, but it’s more interesting if the Hollow keeps experiencing NEW conditions.
True but every move in Monsterhearts isn’t just for the skin it;s in it’s a viable option for anything else. It’s less OP than other things I have encountered (Even in the hollow skin itself) but it allows a character to avoid the disadvantages of public scrutiny too easily for my taste and gives them a benefit.
“It doesn’t matter if people think i’m a ‘slut’ or ‘freak’ or if I have a broken arm I can get a bonus for it and it goes away”
Personally I think it would be more interesting and hollow-like to have them stick around continue influencing their actions, giving them more chances to embrace their labels as they only thing they have been given to describe their empty artificial lives (adhering the the singleton rule of course). It also lets others still have a chance to use it against them and doesn’t dull the original edge of Conditions, it just makes it cut both ways .
Also the hollow is not fan-made, it is one of the official skins, isn’t it?
Hollow was made by Avery Mcdaldno. (Who I’m guessing is related to the author but does not appear to be credited)
It’s generally accepted in the community like the Angel or Serpentine, (which is also his work) and the Selkie (By Jackson Tengu who is also credited in the Rule-book) but I count anything not actually printed in the Rulebook as a “Fan-made” additions to the game (Even stuff by Tengu).
I think if the Hollow uses that to embrace the condition, it becomes less a label that has been put on them and more part of their identity. The Hollow is all about being Not-a-real-boy/girl/other- it’s a skin about identity and figuring out who you are.
Conditions are generally ‘bad’ for PCs- other PCs and the MC can use those conditions against the character. The Hollow adapts and absorbs that condition, making it a thing that can’t be used against them.
It’s only OP if the MC lets it get that way- if the condition is ‘broken arm’ (first off that is a weak example of conditions- if I were labeling a character with a broken arm I’d go for clumsy or reckless, or something else relating to how the arm got broken) then how is the Hollow embodying that? If they are just walking around with a sling on, as an MC I’d say that wasn’t enough to trigger the move.
Jenn Martin is right. The meaning of that move is you don’t know who you really are. So you must rely and act on the labels other people are giving you. In this way, you act as they see you, you gain +1 forward for doing this and you also erase the condition. I can’t see any over powering in that move; it’s only the deep meaning of that move which counts, at last.
That acceptance is a concept I would relate more to being a grown up than being a selfish whiny teenager as most of the other moves seem to suggest you are thus making it stick out in my mind still, but to each their own.
And like I said It’s still about taking the edge away from conditions entirely and once it’s embraced it doesn’t stick around to further color the RP. The condition gets discarded and forgotten likely to never be seen again and like all moves it is available to all skins not just the hollow.
My beef is only with “then it goes away”. Everything else is lovely and beautiful with the move, but the “it going away” means your character doesn’t have to worry he’s a bitch or she’s poor. They just have to take one token action that embodies it and it poofs. Anyone who takes that move doesn’t have to deal with how others see them any more which makes the game A LOT less interesting.
It doesn’t have to be that the Hollow accepts the condition, they just have to let it influence them. If Holly the Hollow has the condition ‘Cheater’ and she decides she’s going to cheat on a test when she wouldn’t have otherwise (thus affecting her sense of self), I can totally get on board (as an MC) with her player getting that +1.
Does it make her a cheater forever? No. Does it mean she accepted that she is a cheater and is ok with that? Certainly not.
I can see how ‘then it goes away’ could feel overpowered, but if you put it in the context of the fiction it’s much less about ditching conditions quickly and more about letting others inform the Hollow who the Hollow is.
Also keep in mind there is another Hollow move that can reduce damage if the Hollow has a condition.
Realistically, you could argue that every skin has bits that make it OP- the Mortal gets XP every time they ignore blatant problems with their lover or gets strings when they forgive people for hurting them.
If you are really against the skin, then don’t offer it to your players. Or strike that move off the list of their options. Make a new move! Make the game fit the fun you want to have!
Jenn Martin I agree with a lot of what you say. There are a lot of moves that could seem OP, but most of them lead to the character getting in even more trouble or kicking the can of the problem further down the road or have a bevy of ways their use could bite them in the butt (Such as with the mortal moves you mentioned which are designed to not solve problems and thus let them get bigger and more hairy to deal with)
As for your suggestions of making a new move to replace it I basically already have:
Blank Canvas: When you take an action that embodies one of your conditions and let it influence your sense of self, carry one forward to your next roll this scene. May only gain this a bonus once per scene.
Cool! I like that you kept the spirit of the move and just adjusted the bit that didn’t work for you.
As a very small side-note, Avery and Joe are one and the same. Joe changed his name in the process of switching gender.
Ah okay… so then It is way more official than I thought. However I am now I’m even more confused with why the discontinuity of language between “Lose a condition” and “Cross off a condition” for clarity sake
I believe it was part of the kickstarter bonus.