1. Wayfind

1. Wayfind

1. Wayfind

There seems to be a contradiction between what is stated about Wayfind Moves on p41 and what is stated about Wayfind Moves on p95.

On p41 it reads that if the lead navigator misses her Wayfind roll, she can “scrub the mission” or “make your [her] own Attack Run”. Other planes relying on the lead navigator’s Wayfind roll can choose which of these two miss conditions they prefer. Thus, the other planes (the ones without the lead navigator) have only two choices if the lead navigator’s Wayfind roll is a miss result: either return to base or make their own Attack Run. Thus, ONLY the lead navigator ever makes a Wayfind Move.

This is contradicted by the information on p95 which states that if the lead navigator fails the Wayfind Move then “another PC in a rear seat in the Section can try to find the target” and “If everyone fails to Wayfind, the Section can’t find the target”. The notion that the section gets a second or third chance to make a Wayfind Move undermines the pressure on the lead navigator and also simply contradicts the point that a miss on the Wayfind presents the other planes with only two options: “scrub the mission” or make their “own Attack Run”. The additional statement on p95 that “Multiple navigators can Wayfind individually if they like” similarly seems to contradict the way a mission is planned and executed as outlined on pp40 and 97.

Escalating from a failed Wayfind to multiple Attack Runs also seems consistent with the rule on p41 whereby if the lead pilot gets a miss on her Attack Run roll, the other pilots must choose to “abort the attack” or “press on, Tempting Fate”. The statement on p95 (p107 of the PDF) that “Another PC in a front seat in the section can try to attack the target” makes more sense here although properly speaking the attack is done as a Tempt Fate Move rather than an Attack Run Move to “attack the target” in this situation. 

So to clarify (in my opinion):

a. If the lead navigator gets a miss result on her initial Wayfind Move then all planes must proceed to make individual Attack Run Moves or return to base. No other Wayfind Moves are made. In this situation the lead pilot no longer gets to lead the attack.

b. If the lead pilot gets a miss result when leading the Attack Run, she may still try to attack but now makes a Tempt Fate Move. Other planes may make an Attack Run Move but do not get the +1 forward because the lead pilot did not succeed on the initial Attack Run Move.

c. Any pilot who makes an Attack Run Move and gets a miss result can choose to proceed with an attack but does so by making a Tempt Fate Move.

2. Character Moves

a. Sparrow – Ghosts (p44): Can this Move be used more than once? Logically, a Sparrow could use this move once for every “dead comrade” she has but the term “comrade” is not defined. I would rule that these comrades have to be PCs but a player might argue that any deceased Soviet military person they have some connection to is a “dead comrade”. Also, where it reads “Every time you do this you are also Harmed or Marked” what does doing “this” actually refer to – choosing the dead comrade (that is, making this Move) or spending the hold? The latter seems to be a more appropriate cost for the benefit of an automatic 10+ success. There seems to be some potential for abuse in this Move – a PC could make the Move every time she hears a comrade has died and build up a large number of holds which are then spent for 1-Harm (a reasonable cost if no more than 1 hold is spent per day).

b. Hawk – People’s Hero (p45): Can this Move be used more than once? A PC could end up with a whole cadre of high-ranking officials who have a personal interest in her career.

c. Owl – Greater Good (p45): Can this move be used more than once? Can it be used to rewrite “Embrace Death and face your final destiny”?

d. Pigeon – Shit Talking (p46): Rolling “+regard” does not seem to make any sense in this context. The Regard bonus is “always +1” (p21) and that bonus would apply in this Move automatically if you had Regard for “another player character you despise” and ONLY if you have Regard for “another player character you despise”.  

e. Raven – Fortune’s Fool (p46): When the PC first gains this Move, does she have to nominate one single other Move which Fortune’s Fool ONLY ever applies to thereafter?

f. On p95 it states that when you make a Wayfind Move or an Attack Run Move you can improve the odds by asking “your Vedomaya for help”. This does not seem to make any sense. A Vedomaya’s role is to absorb/suffer some of the consequences that arise from other PCs’ Moves. A Vedomaya cannot add to the Wayfind or Attack Run roll and so in that sense cannot “improve the odds” at all.

These observations and questions have come out of a process of thinking about this game with increasing affection and a desire to explore it further.

16 thoughts on “1. Wayfind”

  4. Thanks for the questions!

    a. Sparrow – Ghosts (p44): Can this Move be used more than once? 

    It can be used three times, once per hold. Then it is a memory.

    b. Hawk – People’s Hero (p45): Can this Move be used more than once? A PC could end up with a whole cadre of high-ranking officials who have a personal interest in her career.

    It is a monolithic single use move. Define your champion and that’s it.

    c. Owl – Greater Good (p45): Can this move be used more than once? Can it be used to rewrite “Embrace Death and face your final destiny”?

    The intention was for it to be used once, but using it repeatedly isn’t going to cause any harm. You will just abandon a lot of comrades and trade that drama for whatever interesting stuff the lost mark supplied. If you use it to rewrite “embrace death” you will still die when the fiction demands it, rather than on your own terms.

    d. Pigeon – Shit Talking (p46): Rolling “+regard” does not seem to make any sense in this context. The Regard bonus is “always +1” (p21) and that bonus would apply in this Move automatically if you had Regard for “another player character you despise” and ONLY if you have Regard for “another player character you despise”.  

    It’s a good move if you want to actively disadvantage another PC you have no (mechanical) Regard for.

    e. Raven – Fortune’s Fool (p46): When the PC first gains this Move, does she have to nominate one single other Move which Fortune’s Fool ONLY ever applies to thereafter?

    Yes

  6. Maybe just play the game and follow the fiction. If you deliberately engineer a circumstance at the outer edge of mechanical possibility that’s probably not going to be fun, and if it happens accidentally (it will never happen accidentally) perhaps you can talk it over with your friends and decide what would be best. 

  9. Sorry p95 is perhaps contradictory, the sequence outlined above is correct, when in doubt tempt fate.

    It’s important to remember that a successful mission should require a total of two rolls, and should feel pretty routine/anticlimactic. When you start making lots of attack runs and engaging with partial success outcomes, things are going to go very badly. Cutting your losses and running back to base is always a prudent fictional option, although it too has consequences.

  10. Sorry, I’m really not clear about this one: according to Jerry’s summary, if the lead navigator miss his Wayfind roll all the PCs get to do their Attack Run, so I’m not sure what’s the difference with a 10+. Jerry said that if the lead navigator miss, then the lead pilot can’t lead the attack, so the other pilots won’t have the +1 forward, but this isn’t the case: that bonus isn’t becasue the lead pilot succedeed, but because a pilot with Leader role made the Attack Run – maybe a successful one, also if it isn’t explicitly stated; am I wrong?

    Then, if the lead pilot fails the Attack Run the other pilots still get to make an Attack Run roll of their own, while according to the move they should decide to get back to abort the attack or Tempt Fate:

    > On a miss, either abort the attack completely, which will surely trigger an Informal Interview back at base, or desperately press on, Tempting Fate. Planes relying on your leadership can choose which miss condition they would prefer

    So, if the lead pilot miss, do the other pilots have to Tempte Fate to attack (as per rules), or they can do a normal Attack Roll (as per Jerry’s intepretation)?

    Also, what do you mean by “a successful mission should require a total of two rolls”? I understood that a top-notch mission should require one Wayfind roll, plus one Attack Roll for each plane; it’s enough to do one successful Wayfind and one successful Attack Run to succeed the mission with all the planes (i.e., to drop all the planes’ bombs)?

    (Sorry if I keep going on this, but I’m really confused and in a couple of weeks I’ll start a full game, and I’ll likely be the only one to have read the rules.)

  11. You only need to do one attack roll, total, for a mission to be considered a success. Not every aircraft needs to make one. 

    Mauro Ghibaudo decide how to handle this in a way that you are comfortable with, you are confusing me at this point. I’m sorry if the rules are contradictory or unclear.

  12. Sorry if I was unclear, the “one attack roll, total” clarifies things, though, I missed that while reading the rules; I’ll try to make myself clear by clearly outlining my doubts:

    1) Just one Wayfind roll is needed; if it’s a miss, each plane has to make an Attack Roll if they want to attack (since “On a miss, either scrub the mission and return to the airbase in shame, or strike the target late and alone, forcing you to make your own Attack Run. Planes relying on your navigation can choose which miss condition they would prefer”). The part on page 95 about making more than one Wayfind roll is a typo.

    2)

    – according to Attack Run, if the lead pilot gets a miss, she “either abort the attack completely, which will surely trigger an Informal Interview back at base, or desperately press on, Tempting Fate. Planes relying on your leadership can choose which miss condition they would prefer”, so also the other planes should choose between abort the attack or Tempting Fate.

    – according to Jerry’s sequence, “If the lead pilot gets a miss result when leading the Attack Run, […] Other planes may make an Attack Run Move”.

    Which one is right? The other planes Tempte Fate if they want to attack, or they can make an Attack Run?

    3)

    – according to Attack Run, “After an Attack Run by a Leader, other pilots that decide to make an additional Attack Run would enjoy +1 forward”; I think this mean a PC with Leader role;

    – according to Jerry sequence, “Other planes may make an Attack Run Move but do not get the +1 forward because the lead pilot did not succeed on the initial Attack Run Move”; so the lead pilot (whoever they are), not a pilot with Leader role.

    Am I right in saying the the +1 bonus is given only if a PC with Leader role make a (successfull?) Attack Run?

    I hope this is clear.

    (Just to be clear: now that I know that just one Attack Roll is needed I think the rules are clear; what is confusing me is that – as far as I understood – you said Jerry’s sequence is correct, while it seems to me it goes against the rules.)

  13. 1. Yes it is a typo

    2. The former, no what Jerry suggests, sorry for the confusion. 

    3. Yes, the +1 bonus is given only if a PC with Leader role make a successful Attack Run

  15. That flowchart seems to clarify the matter extremely well – thanks, Mauro. And thanks to Jason for your assistance on this.

    My note in 1b of my original post (about the other planes getting to make an Attack Run if the lead pilot misses her roll) is indeed inaccurate and I apologise for the confusion. I agree that if the lead pilot gets a miss on her Attack Run Move, then all planes must abort the mission or Tempt Fate

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