Hi all – Sorry I missed the kickstarter, but more excited than I can articulate that we have an Apocolypse Hack for supers.
Two not so simple questions/ clarifications:
1. A character design like the Hulk decides to try a take-down by essentially punching someone in the face (Smash) – how would you differentiate that from a scenario where say Luke Cage does the same thing? Both would emphasize Smash, both have super strength, but the Hulk is far stronger. If I’m tracking right they each have the same chance to do the same amount of Conditions/ damage. Is it purely the fiction?
2. I understand circumstances where a villain has something which simply prevents the heroes from being effective and therefore forces them to approach things differently rather than brute force. Flame attacks won’t work on a fire elemental, fists go right through an insubstantial ghost, etc… What about an adversary who is all about skill/ prowess? I’m thinking of things like the battles with the Winter Soldier in the last (and oh so awesome) Captain America movie. There is no absolute fiction about the Winter Solider that says Cap cannot take him down – they are evenly matched. How woud you make such an adversary a tough fight, while remaining true to the fiction?
Hi Phil, let me see if I can answer some of your questions:
1. The differences would be purely fictional, yeah. So at times Luke or Hulk will look similar when they punch someone, and when they roll the dice it will look the same mechanically. The difference is mostly whether they can roll at all in the first place. If the Hulk makes to punch an ultra-tough villain then the EIC might be inclined to say that’s doable, as it would be for Hulk to destroy a building, jump into the stratosphere, etc. Luke would be more limited in that regard. So yes, the difference is fictional in that powers are fictional positioning.
2. There are a number of ways you could make the fight a tough one. In that particular fight, when/if Cap rolls a 6- you might make hard moves to impose Conditions more psychological than anything. Even without needing the rolls, I would set up reveals and Conditions coming down the pike by telling the player he seems familiar, and once the mask drops Cap’ll be taking an emotional/psychological Condition for sure. In terms of just purely skill and prowess it’ll be in how you describe the fight – so if Cap is rolling poorly it’s not that he’s failing to land blows, you tell the player he’s unable to land a hit because they are so evenly matched, the skill and style is so similar to you, etc.
Now, if you question is if Cap keeps rolling well and Imposing Conditions, then how can you stop the Winter Soldier from getting creamed pretty quick, then there are a couple options. I definitely think that since Cap can affect him, that if the player rolls well, then he totally should affect him. You can give him a Condition Threshold so that it’ll be tough, and you can describe the scene and the type of Condition implied such that the player sees just how evenly matched they are and that he’s getting pretty lucky. Maybe the Conditions that end up getting imposed on the Winter Soldier by Cap are more about him getting stunned, shaken, looking confused, like he’s seen a ghost, that kind of thing. Once the Conditions add up, he’s sufficiently shaken that he needs to retreat and regroup, figure out what that was, etc.
Hope that helps, let me know if I was unclear or if you have any other questions!
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Thanks for the quick reply! Helps quite a bit – does that mean the EIC picks what condition is imposed by a player? The player (assuming they roll good enough) could say it’s minor, moderate, etc… but the EIC decides the nature of that condition?
I think it works ok either way. When I run the game though, I usually ask the player to describe what they’re doing and what choices they make (severity of Condition, etc.). Once I get that, I ask the player to propose the name and nature of the Condition (if they haven’t yet already) and then run the table through the entire scene from start to finish, leading into the next scene. For the times when what is proposed doesn’t fit for the villain (as there is often cases when the player doesn’t know how what they’re doing is affecting the villain at all) then I’ll definitely propose something that is more in keeping with what I know about the villain, their powers, motivations, etc.
So with the Cap vs. Bucky scene if Cap deals a Moderate Condition by saying something like: “I slam my shield into his face and then punch the shield to send him flying!”
I might say something like “Ok, that sounds pretty cool, but when you go to smash him you notice something strange about him and get an odd feeling. It’s like he anticipates what you’re going to do and reacts to it with lightning-quick reflexes. Clearly something is up with this guy – no one has ever been able to read you so well before! What’s even more strange though, is that it looks like he, too, is surprised by how he was able to read you. You see his eyes cloud over in confusion. If it’s ok with you, I’m going to give him the Condition “Haunted” if that’s cool with you.
That said, I don’t think it would be a terribly bad thing for the EIC to negate the Condition completely if they had to, as long as it fits the fiction. Just like shooting a fire ball at a fire elemental, but I think you’ll want to think carefully about other options (proposing another Condition instead, gently reminding the PC that this is a fire elemental, etc.). For example, in the Cap vs. Bucky seen I’d much rather see Cap’s player have agency and impose a Condition, because it fits the fiction in particular, but because the player would probably feel good about it. I can also make the player look cooler by reframing their poor results as good attacks that normally would have totally worked, but not on this guy – he totally has your number!
Now that I think of it I’m not sure if I answered your question directly enough – the EIC should always reframe a Condition if it doesn’t suit the fiction. Portraying the world consistently and with honesty is one of the most important jobs the EIC does, and since only the EIC is privy to certain information, there’ll be times when the EIC will want to step in and make sure everything jives with the fiction. Just don’t be coy or mysterious about it with the players if they’re not getting it or it’s frustrating them. If hints don’t work on Cap’s player despite laying it on thick I’d just come out and tell them that I’m changing this for a reason, this villain is tied to you and your backstory, so don’t feel like I’m playing “gotcha” or trying to take away your agency. I’ve never had a problem before, but just in case, I figured I’d make that clear!
Good clarification. Thank you. Love the idea of operating on 2 levels. Sure it’s a fist fight, but most importantly it’s about the emotional punch of revealing who the winter soldier actually is (in that example – which is an abject lesson in how to make encounters interesting.)
Another thing I’ve heard from dungeon world is to treat martial prowess as a defy danger before they could even attempt the take down. Their outer defense is so strong and so attuned to counteract the PCs tactics that it perhaps surprises them and turns an offense into a defense.