I found what may be a potentially embarrassing typo that is repeated on all the playbooks. Under Looks, it says: Ambiguous, Male, Female, Transgressing. From the context, I assume you meant Transgender instead of Transgressing?
I found what may be a potentially embarrassing typo that is repeated on all the playbooks. Under Looks, it says:…
I found what may be a potentially embarrassing typo that is repeated on all the playbooks. Under Looks, it says:…
Its a direct quote from Apocalypse World “looks list”.
Anyways it say “looks” not gender.
Yeah, you can check off any of the others and still have a trans character. “Transgressing” is specifically for obvious, visual bending of gender roles.
Transgressing means that the person is intentionally violating gender norms. A transgender person could look male, female, ambiguous, or transgressing. That’s up to them!
I’ve never heard it used that way before. You may want to double-check that and see if it is just some local slang or if it’s commonly used that way. You may have a lot of people thinking it’s a misprint.
Iacopo Benigni
I looked and you’re right, it is in Apoc World. I’ve only played Dungeon World so I didn’t notice before. Still, that’s no guarantee that it is a proper word usage.
Tom Miskey – it is proper word usage, you’re simply not familiar with it.
Think of the comedian Eddie Izzard – he is not transgender; he identifies as a male, and yet chooses to wear traditionally feminine dress. His look is “transgressing” but his gender is not transgender.
As Iacopo Benigni said, this is about “look” and not about “gender.”
It’s gender presentation, which gets conflated with gender a lot.
I’m not convinced that “Transgressing” is entirely appropriate, myself. It’s great for Apocalypse World, where it fits the tone of the game. It works because the apocalypse is an aggressive place. But for teen superheroes… I think that a more flippant, less aggressive word might be more appropriate for the tone.
I throw my two cents in here. I think “transgressing” as a look is fine here. It means you are intentionally choosing to present yourself in a way that conflicts with, or runs against “normal” society. Whatever that “normal” may be.
June Shores
Maybe something like “Distinctive”, “Unique”, “Exotic”, or “Unorthodox” would work better, and then maybe also replace male and female with “Ordinary”, “Nerdy”, “Fashionista”, “Sporty”, “Goth”, “Country”, and other looks that students have in school. If someone is always dressed like a country boy (jeans, boots, plaid shirt, hat) that says a lot more about them than “Male”. (Though, looking at it again, I see most have a separate line for clothing)
Tom Miskey
These alternatives are already represented in the other options though, and I think that ideas about gender presentation are a big enough part of characterization as a whole that gender expression ought to stay.
Though this is probably a better discussion to have with the actual authors involved at the very least. We have no authorship over the game, after all.
June Shores
They said to post errata and comments here or email them, I decided to post it to get other peoples’ input. Mark saw it, and I’m sure Brendan will be watching this page too.
I’m very well-read on TG and gender issues and fiction, not so much on looks or fashion. I’ve heard of phrases like “transgressing gender boundaries/norms”, but that is using the ordinary definition of transgressing, which is to break out of ordinary bounds, and it then says exactly which boundaries are being broken. I’ve never before seen “transgressing”, just by itself with no descriptor, used to describe cross-dressing or a unique fashion style
Hey folks!
We are watching this discussion and (as always) thinking about what folks have to say. This phrase has a long history in the Apocalypse World community of opening up space for nonbinary people and characters, and we want to make sure to honor that. We also hear that maybe some other words might be a better fit for the genre, so we’ll look into that too.
Thanks for your feedback! Let’s continue to keep it civil and pleasant moving forward!
Tom Miskey
Oh, I’m not saying that you were wrong to post the thread in the first place. Just that it’s probably not productive or good form to get into a big debate over it. I’m just not too eager to let the discussion get too heated, so I’m trying to take a step back. That’s all.
As a trans woman and a gamer who greatly appreciates the Apocalypse World family of games, I do see and experience the impact that “transgressing” has on the Apocalypse World community and it’s all positive. It has been used to deliberately open up the community to nonbinary people, like the corvid said.
In this case, I think it’s best to look at how the word is being used in the context of this particular sub-culture. It does benefit to use words “incorrectly” sometimes, because linguistic drift and sub-culture linguistic quirks are things that happen.
June Shores
I guess it’s just the former English Teacher in me… I’m not opposed to putting TG representation in there, it’s just that it should be one that makes sense. It may just be “an Apoc World thing”, but fans from other backgrounds (Fate and DW for me) may be scratching their heads, that’s all.
.