How people handle overcoming obstacles with Mask characters?
I have used powers, directly engage and defend, but each has a bit strange feel, expecially on the stuff you choose.
I though on adding a label shift thing for this.
So if you are trying to rush into burning building I ask “Do you see yourself brave enough? Do you succeed?”
If you succeed increase Danger (and reduce something), if you can’t do it increase Mundane (and reduce something).
The idea is here that overcoming a threshold – even without somebody saying you are something – can by itself define your self image somewhat though reflection.
The situation need to be really major and definative to have definitive Label change, but I think I need something like this.
Other way could be that I handle Fire, Fear etc to have infleence over a person and the infleunce need to be overcomed.
Any ideas?
You talk about it, the GM makes moves, the player responds (maybe they trigger one of their moves) and so on.
When no moves apply, don’t look around just to have something to roll because other games have trained you to roll in these situations. There are enough GM moves you can use to get you through it. Tell them the consequences and ask, is always a good one.
Alternatively you could write a custom move for that.
When you run into a burning building to rescue civilians, roll+Saviour
On a hit you get people out but
On a 7-9 choose 2, on a 10+ choose 1
– You don’t get out without issues, take 1 condition
– You don’t get everybody out, the GM might offer you a choice of who you can save
– you show some of your true character under the pressure, the GM will shift 2 labels
Edit: Move is really not thought out much, just treat it as a very light example
Keep also in mind, “rushing in a burning building” it’s really vague: what’s happening? Is there someone blocking the heroes? If not, why it’s an obstacle? Is there something blocking the heroes? If so, why it’s interesting to have the PCs blocked by, say, a door?
According to the situation, the answer can change: if the point is just to rush into the burning building, with nothing to stop you (a villain, etc.), you just rush into it; if there is someone blocking you and you try to overcome them with your powers, then you’re unleashing your powers. If you just try to beat them and rush over them, it could be you’re directly engaging them.
Or, maybe there is an energy field that damages anyone touching it? Cool! They are taking a powerful blow.
It’s just a door, and noone want to stop them? Maybe they just go over it, no roll needed.
The point here is to learn more about the person really. Or so I think. More relevant issue for me is interacting with fear, which is very subjective and I have found that we like to delve on this and would like to flavor the discussion on the act of overcoming them through gamish talk. The moves didn’t feel good frankly and we used powerful blow as mental attack, directly engage etc.
Frankly I can handle the thing as freeform question – just thought that the system might give me a little extra.
Might do as Tim said and just add an Act Under Pressure move and use suitable label.
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tomi sarkkinen but Masks doesn’t have an Act under fire type move and that is by design. Hacking it back in seems like a bad idea.
See also
https://plus.google.com/114493035025354983838/posts/hv99n56Bcw5?iem=4&gpawv=1&hl=de-DE
Consider also that the sheer fact PCs decide to rush into the burning bulding, how thy choose to do it, if/how they choose to save people inside, etc., are all things that let you learn about them, no roll needed.
I’ll preface this by saying that I’ve only started reading Masks, but based on how other PbtA games work, I agree with Tim Franzke. If there is no move that applies to the situation, it either happens as the player says or the GM makes a GM Move.
Tim Franzke would you be extremely kind and expand a bit on this?
There is the thing that the game is about who you are as a person and the changing nature of youth self-image. I get that the moves are therefore working basically as dynamic between two active participants, especially when the labels are in question. This is extremely fine and good – mind. For our style we come around a question about will to do things even if there are fears and traumas present – I think its because of years of Amber gaming. This makes up scenes of personal conflict. The situations this comes up are always personal for the characters – I can freeform them – and I do like how Apocalypse games are great on helping me as GM to make scenes even more personal and the impact stronger.
I do think that the label shift after question Is good way to handle our need, but I also don’t see how “act under pressure” damages the experience IF people keep in mind that the effect is influenced primary by self reflection.
Tim Franzke ah sorry, I was writing reply and didn’t see your link. Will read the threat next. Thanks. 🙂
Mauro Ghibaudo For the “no roll required” part. I did had that intention with the Label shift:
**So if you are trying to rush into burning building I ask “Do you see yourself brave enough? Do you succeed?”
If you succeed increase Danger (and reduce something), if you can’t do it increase Mundane (and reduce something).**
No roll, only question. Labels shift after the act is performed and then we talk how the downward shift manifests on the characters manners. 🙂
Chris Stone-Bush I do think that Tim Franzke has really good point and I didn’t first go with move – jumped the gun with the example burning building move really. I just though I needed something more for about three-four situations on Saturday game and those basically were situations where the Player needed something to tell Us if it was possible to push oneself forward or if narrating fearfulness and weakness was a better route. It took us few seconds to come to solution – which was basically me ruling (or making a move is you want to call it that) – but it was a shift from co-authoring to me dictating. As we have played together a long – long time its not a major thing but for future use, especially with people I don’t know well personally, I would like to get my act together for this and handle it smoother.
Doesn’t doing this make moves that shift labels as part of their results less special, though?
Also, there is nothing wrong with the player telling you what happens with regards to their character. If no move triggers and you’ve asked the player if their character can do something, you use their answer. That’s how the game works.
Sorry, I meant “no mechanics required”. If you want to have a mechanical part you can try with custom moves, but if the point is to learn about PCs I think you can do it without adding mechanics.
Also with the Label shift, it isn’t Labels shifting that let you learn about the character, that’s just a mechanical consequence; what let you learn about the character is what they do, and to see that you don’t need a new move.
I can see that letting the player choose which Label is reduced says something, but – given that I don’t know very well the game, so I can be wrong – I’m not so sure it’s really important to learn something about the character, when we know what they choose to do.
I think this is true also because, if I got Labels right, having a Label low doesn’t mean the character see themselves low in that Label, so we can have a player reducing Danger with the character feeling more dangerous; so reducing a Label doesn’t really necessarily says something about the character.
Chris Stone-Bush You are absolutely right. The need came from Player and the end result was that I ended up telling if the character could or not. Needed some help. Changed the question to follow logic of GM move basically. Though it could have handled better. Still worked reasonably well, so not a big deal really.
Mauro Ghibaudo good points. I might be thinking this wrong way around. I need something to help in our dialogue about the character and carry the impact from scene to scene – taking in account that there might be scenes between in which the character isn’t present – which conditions do frankly. I’m working with similar logic and there really isn’t one. Which perhaps moves me toward a move route to help the narrative forward on threshold situation.
Also I do understand that I can use the moves to represent variable situations and as i should not “name the move” – only use them as guidelines – it could go lot smoother next time. I worded the moves in game more as I performed more as a playtest this time – which might have made the game talk a bit clumsy at times. Especially as we are not native English speakers (as you might have noticed) 😀
Since the question was from the player… couldn’t just asking “What would you character do?” work?
In the game I’m playing, my character hadn’t the slightest problem in standing up to the most important superheroes in Halcyon City, calling them to their shit, since she’s outspoken, sick of being judged for her powers and not her actions, and has no time to lose (she’s a Doomed).
On the other hand, when she had a vision (due to a hard move)… she broke and had a panic attack. Because a vision to her means new powers, and new powers to her means her Doom is nearing.
I didn’t really had any problem in deciding how she would react, to have her panicking I just needed another players asking “It’s the first time you had a vision?”, and answering yes I realized this would make her panick; I had no problem since I know her and what she hopes and fears, and, really, as long as it moves the story forward there is no wrong answer.
This really depends on the players, but do you know why did they feel the need to have something to know if their character would be afraid of rushing in the building?
Heh. FIrstly I must say that I’m over-analysing things and frankly the problem isn’t a big thing really. We handled the situations in really fast.
The thing the player needed was really the feel that character pushes or fail to push through personal fears – the feel of empowerment or the build up fro future empowerment.
I think the system just somewhat surprised us. I think I need to work over this in my head a bit.
Thanks to all for the ideas and insight. 🙂
I’m on the “there are enough shift labels” moves.
If you want to shift a PCs labels when they rescue from a burning building, have a fireman, reporter or rescuee say something. If they accept it, shift their labels; if not, do their move.
The reason that they’re called Labels and not Stats or Vibes or something is because they’re largely EXTERNAL. If you make your PCs feel they’re intrinsic, you’re taking away some of the vital parts of being a teenager, namely the idea of a semi-controlled identity. (That’s why the Legacy has a move called “I know what I am”; it’s not a default assumption!)
Adam Goldberg good points
So, this has cropped up a few times, and I think I want to chime in.
There actually is a defy-danger style move in Masks. It’s called Take a Powerful Blow.
Are you jumping into a giant burning building? Does fire actually hurt you or are you a legacy with invulnerability? Yes? It might? Great! Take a powerful blow. On a 6- tell us how you are badass and get out unscathed. On a 7-9 get stuck in fire. Take some conditions because you’re not good enough to save everyone (guilty/insecure might work) – or whatnot.
Are you a hacker who just got caught in a hail of bullets? Of course you’re diving for cover. But take a powerful blow the blow in this case being a hail of bullets. On a 6- you made it to the table no problem. You might even land with a gadget in your belt ready or something. On a 7-9 maybe you’re pinned down and have to provoke teammates to help while you cringe as the table is taken apart around you. On a 10+ … whelp, you might be out for the count. Not dead, but maybe the computer you hack with has been shot up in critical places. Or you hid, but something hit your head (and so on).
Defend (as written) is about defending someone. You can make a semantic argument that someone can mean that you’re defending yourself, but if you read the move construction this invalidates many of the choices. Moreover the fiction can move uncomfortably. You’re in danger. So you defend yourself. Which then on a 7-9 (likely outcome) puts you in danger. From which you’ll probably defend yourself. And so on.
It’s generally a bad fit for self-defense.
But consider take a powerful blow. It works pretty well in these situations, and has the added advantage of putting conditions up in the field, which makes characters act more like teenagers, which is super fun.
Stras Acimovic I do think Take a Powerful Blow has worked best for the options on hand. The name of the Move itself somewhat distracts but I do think the tie to Conditions works really well and the options work well for creating narration. My only problem here is a lessening the impact of encountering powers for the occasions you play with people accustomed to rules.
I mean; people take it more seriously when there is a reminder of some effect on their character sheet. Masks being about the growth of character more than physical action has only narrative to bring forth wounds and harm. It works naturally with only Take a Powerful Blow and Narrative Harm GM Move being the two tiers of danger, but I do think it sometimes would enforce the rarity of real danger, which superheroics side generally is about and which can seep into Masks expectations too, if you have three tiers with Act Under Pressure, Take a Powerful Blow and Narrative Harm GM Move .
Again I underline that the game works absolutely with the Take a Powerful Blow – and has a nice all or nothing vibe going with it. I just fear it can lessen the impact and feel repetitive on longer sessions – which we do generally.
I’d just keep an eye out to not abusing that: to take a powerful blow, you have to take a powerful blow. Given the fiction, entering a burning building could be, but it could also not be, a powerful blow.
If there is a way in withou rushing through walls of flame, then it could be possible to enter the building without taking a powerful blow. What’s powerful depends on the fiction and on the players, but for example “You get a sligh burn on your arm” could be a blow, but not powerful.
Yep. And also the fact that the question isn’t about the heat or if character gets a burn, its how person handles it and sees itself after the act of reseiving the blow – which also makes me a bit anxious about the move. Tale a Powerful Blow conjures an image of external effect rather than oneselfs reflection.
Maybe it can help if you consider that a blow could also be psychological? If another PC in our game were to say to my character “You’re a villain”, that could be a powerful blow. I can see how to use the option in case the blow isn’t physical (but I don’t have seen it in game).
That is actually “change their self image” and the character saying it would roll…
You have a point, but change their self-image was replaced by comfort or support, so it doesn’t apply; I guess it could be When someone with influence over you tells you who you are, but what if it would still hurt (a lot), also if I successfully rejected their Influence? Could a powerful blow be psychological? I have to think about this.
I was reading again Masks material, and I found that “When you shift a label, it means that your view of yourself is changing. You see yourself more as the label you shift up, less as the label you shift down”; so, it seems Labels are meant as internal (i.e., as the PC see themselves) rather than external (i.e., as other people see them).
If that’s still so, I was wrong in saying “so we can have a player reducing Danger with the character feeling more dangerous”.
All the moves don’t specify physical stuff. You can defend someone from verbal beratement, and you can directly engage but getting into a verbal fight as much as a fistfight.
Forex my char’s mother was the greatest villain of the silver age in our game. She’s pretty much physically invulnerable, and the hits we have landed have all been verbal.
Stras Acimovic I would go as far as to say that moves in Masks don’t use system for physical stuff – its left for narrative – all the system side effects perform through the Label – Condition tags.
The Take a Powerful Blow as a term focuses on the impact of being attacked by a person or force and the effect on you and how you see yourself after that. Defend works on the defender – defended sociality.
On the Take a Powerful Blow as a system for example going against your personal fears – the term itself implies a bit too much on the physical side. In fact I think I like more and more about the idea that Fears, Barriers etc. Have, Can gain and lose influence and acting against this influence.