How many moves is too many?
Working on a fantasy noir hack roughly inspired by The Lies of Locke Lamora. I’ve currently got 18 basic moves, which are divides into stealth moves, social moves and combat moves.
While it covers off pretty much everything you’d want to do in this game, it instinctively strikes me as too many moves.
It’s a balance between specificity and simplicity. What’s the largest number of moves you’ve played with before it felt like too many?
Ooph. That’s a really tough question. I’d say a game has too many Basic Moves when I can’t easily remember them all. Of course that’s not a great metric as people’s memory capacity differs.
18 Basic Moves does seem like too many though. Could some of those become Advanced Moves? Or Special Moves?
Some of them could be class moves – Disguise becoming a class move that adds to the Swindler’s bullshit roll.
I’d suggest 7 if ease of play is your aim.
Fan you fit the most common ones on a single page, and the less common ones on another? Then you should be good.
Also Lamorra rocks.
Pompeius Pomponius Probably not, so I’m guessing it needs a rethink. And yes, it totally does.
I’d say you have the right number when it is not possible to remove one and keep the game working as intended.
Michael Sands Very good point.
Oli Jeffery However, spotting that point is hard – I think that requires playtesting until you know it’s right.
Clustering moves could help – that way you’ve got a couple general things to do but then a couple specific options for how to do it…
Probably late to the party, but have you already eyeballed Blades in the Dark for useful material in this regard?
Do you have two or more moves that can easily be generalized into one? Do you have a move that is unlikely to come up in most games? Does one stat that is ove represented in your moves? Any yes’s are good indicators of what should be cut.
Shane Liebling I have, but I’m not a big fan. It’s too mechanical and prescriptive for me.
A basic move is one everybody uses all the time. If it’s not in that category, move it out of Basic into an advanced or specialized category..
For me, as a player and MC, I find more than 2 moves per stat put me in that uncomfortable, “am I missing something” mindspace, ie. I start to forget what the moves do in any particular instance and have to talk through it to decide which move fits
1 or 2 a stat tends to feel right to me when making things, but there’s a lot more to it than a simple number I think, and will probably depend on the circumstances. Ultimately, playtesting is what’ll help you figure it out.
I would say that if it feels like too many to you, though, then that might be a sign? It’s your thing, so to a degree it’s about making the game feel right to you. Take a look and ask if each move is actually distinct, or what’s gained from leaving it separate if they’re similar. Also think about what they put emphasis on; maybe you want to cut something to shift that.
If your situations are really distinct, like they don’t overlap or intermingle (don’t really feel that’s the case here), then having a lot of moves might be more manageable (think Night Witches with daytime vs night/mission moves). Like, we’re in a social situation, so we only need that reference. That’s if you want there to be a distinct break in the flow.
Ultimately though, the answer will eventually just come down to ‘playtest that shit.’
Came here to say the same thing Jonathan Semple. If a stat only has one basic move that feels too few, three feels like too many
Fixed it; I realised that almost all of them could be handled by Defy Danger, and flavour could come from Class abilities that provide situational bonuses or alternatives.
Good on you !