A CULTURAL ISSUE
Ok, now that I’ve come with the Barrio stat for my #NahualRPG, I started working on moves to use with that stat. Streetwise related moves. And I usually work Spanish first, then translate from there.
So I came up with this move, I’m calling “Duelo de albures” and well, I don’t even know how to explain it in English! But let me try: albures are a kind of verbal fight where your objective is to humiliate your opponent with sexual talk, mostly saying that you’ll fuck them, BUT you can’t use direct sexual expressions, it has to be always with wordplay and hidden sense.
So… I’m asking myself, is this move really necessary? It’s heavily Mexican, and I’m sure Mexican (and maybe some Latino) players will have a good laugh with it. Also the move will serve as a stress release mechanic, so there is that. But I think the move is only possible during leisure moments on the fiction, with an audience around (since the main intention is to humiliate in front of others), so a Cantina is a most likely scenario for this move.
Now all that say, I don’t even know how to translate the move to English, because I wrote the 10+/7-9/6- results themselves in albur style! Perhaps I should just do a plain translation and go with it, or maybe leave that move only for the Spanish edition, but I really don’t want to open that door!
I would love your opinion in this one.
#imhopeless #LatinoxCreates
So, it sounds like something similar to ‘the Dozens,’ albeit with a different set of restrictions/emphases: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dozens
Albures proper might be a bit too niche for enjoyment by a wide audience, but you can, for instance, make a more general ‘public humiliation through wordplay’ move as a stress mechanic, and use Albures as a specific example, which would let you have the specific element in the book, for the parts of the audience that will get it, without necessarily depriving folks who aren’t familiar with that cultural element.
en.wikipedia.org – The Dozens – Wikipedia
I was gonna say it sounds like a “rap battle” but I don’t know the slang. How do you challenge someone to “the dozens”?
Well it turns out that thte wikipedia article for albur is pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albur
They seam pretty similar, the main difference I believe (by what wikipedia says about dozens) is the use of explicit words (dick, cock, piss… in the example they give). You can’t never do that on an albur, you’d loose if you do. Even though some of them are pretty obvious sexual related, they are never explicit. And most of the times women, kids and some men even, won’t get it. Non “dirty-thinking-people” (XD) will hear just a weird but regular non insulting talk.
I guess what you have to decide is how central to the theme of the game it is.
If your game won’t be the game it’s supposed to be without albur, then part of the experience is for players to broaden their cultural horizons.
That said, if I were designing the game, I would probably design the move to be broadly applicable to humiliate (or even otherwise influence) someone through a public duel of wits/words. And then cite the specific cultural reference as a good example.
So, in addition to not being immediately-recognizable to outsiders, it’s also potentially super offensive to women and queer audiences to specifically put in game rules about characters riffing on a game like this.
I’d recommend leaving it out entirely; seems like the sort of thing that roleplaying can handle, if the players are into it. If, on the other hand, you find that the game actually needs a mechanic for it, I’d go with Paul E’s suggestion of making it a general “wordplay game” move, and using whatever examples you feel best-illustrate it.
Adam D
you’re totally right about the potential offensiveness of the issue (unfortunately my Mexican culture is very machista). Thank you for pointing that out! (I was aware of that, but didn’t say it out loud because I wanted to see if it was pointed out by someone else, which means it is indeed an issue).
But, even so, women can and do participate in albures, and I’m pretty sure queer people too (it may be in some situations, their only defense in our sexually repressing society). Actually a woman from one of the most famous barrios bravos in the whole country, Tepito, is known as the queen of the albur, her name is Lourdes Ruiz, and she has even won national competitions in multiple ocations. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2606631/Street-theater-Mexico-Citys-rough-Tepito-area.html). I know I said women won’t get it, my bad. The truth is most women won’t get it, and also most men.
Please, don’t let me be misunderstood, I don’t want by any way be offensive, and I’m quite pro LGTB.
But I also want my game to be strongly Mexican. We are used here in Mexico to play as knights, wizards, clerics, vampires, werewolves, space marines, jedis, because that’s all there’s out there. Happily I’m seeing lately games like “Cartel” from Mark Diaz Truman and “Pasión de las Pasiones” from Brandon Leon-Gambetta with Mexican/Latino characters as the main characters.
All I want is for players to play Mexican characters, even if they are not.
azlath All good. My first instinct was to ask a friend of mine who isn’t Mexican, but who lived in Mexico for several years. She was strongly put-off by the idea, and had a lot to say.
I distilled her thoughts down, and added my own in my previous comment.
I get the desire to make your game distinctly Mexican; I think that’s great! I just think that the idea might not export well without an awful lot of care.
Adam D that’s exactly why I’m posting the issue here. Because I know it needs an awful lot of care. And again thanks for pointing it.
Here is a video of the Queen of the Albur in Tetipo, it turns out she impart master classes. I would love you could understand the Spanish, but at least I think you can see the amount of women going to her master class =D
One of the things she says is that for her the albur is “a mental chess game”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XmQoxFJRJo
This kind of thing is so difficult to parse out how to use. My thinking tends to be that if it is so important that it must be present, include and make a good note of what it is. If it isn’t core to the experience, skip it. You can always custom move or (as said by some folks above!) worked into something else.
There is a delicate balance between erasure and not perpetuating potentially harmful stuff! Part of the reason I started with something light and fluffy like novelas!
Yes! Brandon Leon-Gambetta you just nailed what I was trying to say, much more clearly. Thank you.