Hi everyone, first post, but have been following the community for a little while. I’ve started running a Monsterhearts game (2 sessions so far) and I have a few questions regarding the Infernal’s Darkest Self–a couple of them rules-based, and one that’s just looking for some ideas/advice. (Note: I’ll be using “he” when referring to the Infernal only because the one in my game happens to be a he.)
First, the way I read the Darkest Self, it suggests that the Infernal can’t exchange Strings for gifts/etc from his Dark Power while he is in his Darkest Self; “You can’t get what you need anymore. The world has left you cold and alone, shivering in the wake of your own addictions.” Do other folks run it this way, that when the Infernal is in his Darkest Self, the Dark Power won’t grant anymore gifts until he has fulfilled all the demands the Dark Power makes, and burns off the existing Strings? i.e He can’t use Bargains until he escapes his Darkest Self, but could still use any non-bargain Skin Moves he has? Or do folks figure it’s fine for the Infernal to keep using Bargains, and just keep digging himself deeper, and stuck in his Darkest Self longer, since it just means even more Strings he has to burn off by fulfilling demands from the Dark Power before he can escape it? (Setting aside for the moment the “agree to a worse bargain with a Darker Power” escape option.)
Second, what about the Infernal’s Sex Move? Whenever he has sex with someone, the Dark Power looses a String on him, and gains one on his partner. Does that mean an Infernal can get out of fulfilling the demands of the Dark Power, by just sleeping with a number of people (or one person a number of times) to get rid of the Strings, since the rule for escaping the Darkest Self just says “you escape…when the Dark Power has no more strings on you…”? I can see where trading “fulfilling the Dark Power’s demands” for “giving the Dark Power power over others” still works thematically–are you willing to sell out those you are sleeping with, to free yourself–but something also feels a little not right about it. I could easily see it going either way. How do others handle it?
Last, just looking for some thoughts about demands from the Dark Power. I’ve seen a number of play reports where people playing Infernals talk about how their Dark Power demanded they murder a classmate, or sacrifice a child, or that sort of thing. I’m looking for some ideas for some demands that are not quite so straight-up-murder-y. The Dark Power to the Infernal in my game is a sly, charming manipulator. Sure, he’s evil, but I want to think of things that could be demanded of a servant, that could advance his goals, and be corrupting, or dark, or monstrous, without making the player just be a killer. I’d love to hear ideas from other folks who have run games with Infernals in them, of some kinds of demands you’ve had the Dark Power make when the Infernal is in his Darkest Self (or from people who have played Infernals, what has been demanded of them.)
Thanks so much for your time.
I discovered the hard way that an Infernal who can keep making bargains when in his darkest self can be unstoppable. If you have someone who has completely given over his will to his dark master, like my player did, then he can take damage – clear it with a bargain – and never risk any physical consequences to himself – forever.
I didn’t find that dynamic particularly interesting, and would recommend that once in the Darkest Self the demon is done with you until you do the things it needs done, and those should be things you don’t want to do.
As for whether you can get around this by screwing around to give away the master’s strings to your partners. Yes, you could. But – first, when you are that desperate, people should smell the desperation and be less inclined to have sex with you because desperation is ugly and unsexy.
And, second, if you screw someone just to get rid of strings, then the dark power will get them to do the bad stuff you were trying not to do, and if you have any shred of a soul left you should be aware that this is your fault.
1) That’s up to you and the player. I can certainly see it becoming uninteresting if the Infernal’s player doesn’t care anymore as Grey Kitten described. But using the Dark Power to try and solve a problem only to dig yourself deeped in debt could be fun.
2) Fucking five people, one person five times, or any other combination while in Darkest Self will get rid of those Strings. That’s the whole point. Don’t forget that once the Dark Power has a String on another character, it can (and should) use them. The Dark Power should use those Strings to tempt the character into doing horrible things, fuck with their plans, and wreak all kinds of havoc. So while the Infernal can pass off those Dark Power Strings to other people, they should see the horrible things that happen when they do so.
3) Eh. All of our Dark Power bargains have been heart eating, classmate murdering, baby killing kind of stuff.
In a short or one-off game, I usually go for Dark Power bargains being of the murder-y sacrifice-y kind but for people the other players care about because that kicks off a good, quick grand finale kind of thing with the Infernal either trying to desperately help undo the evil they’ve released or happily revelling in the role of the villain.
For longer seasons I like to play it slow. “Steal such-and-such amulet from the museum. Bring it to such-and-such place. Find a pure white cat (their mother’s beloved pet?) and maje a sacrifice of blood.”
Then not much happens. Let them escape their Darkest Self having done some morally questionable, but not necessarily awful stuff. Then, at an appropriate point, when they’re in their Darkest Self another time, maybe they find out (or the other players do) that these little favours they’ve been doing are gonna bring about an apocalypse-style hell-on-earth situation. (Does the Dark Power offer them demonic princedom do sweeten the deal? Or do they threaten damnation if they try and fight back? Remember you can also use the Dark Power’s Strings on them to “come out of nowhere with a hard move”, and if needed I like to use that clause to show their true and terrifying potential).
Speaking of which, if the Dark Power has a String on someone else through the sex move, “come out of nowhere with a hard move” is my favourite way to spend it. Or threaten to spend it if the Infernal looks like they’re having second thoughts.
Remember, the Infernal is about addiction, and how even if it starts fun, the deeper you get, the more destructive it gets – and that “happiness always comes at someone else’s expense”. The Infernal’s player knows how their sex move works even if their character doesn’t. If they’re willing to push their demonic debts onto an innocent, they should see their addiction hurts the ones they love. Once again, whether it starts with the Dark Power maybe just causing a little mischief (your boyfriend’s college grant is suddenly cancelled and his whole future now in doubt) or jumping straight to “thanks for that free soul!” or “i’m possessing your girlfriend’s body because i need a vessel to enjoy this mortal world” depends on the length of the game.
Can anyone tell the Infernal is my favourite character to MC for?
Quick note: I’m not a sadist MC. I absolutely warn new players that the Infernal’s skin is designed to get in over their head and get in trouble and they may end up being the game’s villain. But also that they should go for it because they’re an excellent source of drama and come with an almost pre-packaged story arc (albeit one that can go in a few different directions).
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I’m going to be more or less offline for the next several days, so won’t be able to respond to anything, but if anyone else has thoughts, please share them. Some good ideas/suggestions so far. I appreciate everyone’s input. 🙂
First off, a PC whose will has completely merged their will with the Dark Power is an NPC.
Getting a dark power string means a hard move when spent, so the infernal may be spreading a “puking black ichor” STD.
If a player is constantly cycling strings to heal damage, they’re manifesting demonic power. Which would be pretty brutal if someone brings in a +Holy weapon.
Lots of good thoughts here. I think I’m going to run it that the Dark Power won’t make any deals while the Infernal is in his Darkest Self. I just feel like the addiction metaphor is stronger if sometimes he’s unable to get his fix.
As for the sex thing, that’s going to be interesting. As I mentioned, I’ve only run 2 sessions so far. The first (and only) person the Infernal has had sex with in game–in the second session–was the Ghoul. Now, they had all read their Skins’ sex moves when they picked the Skins, but it was all of our first times playing Monsterhearts, and we unfortunately had a 7 month hiatus between the first and second “episodes.” So, when they decided in character to have sex, neither of them remembered what their sex moves were. It was only after it happened, that they both realized that he was giving the Dark Power a string on her…and she was becoming addicted to having sex with him. So…definitely interesting when we get to the next session (this weekend,) he’ll either have to be willing to just feed her to his Dark Power, in order to let her satisfy her hunger, or spurn her to save her, but make her suffer her craving. Looking forward to seeing what happens.
Ahahaha the Ghoul and Infernal getting into a feedback Hunger-String-swapping loop is something I’ve never seen before… and exactly why I love this game.
In this instance, maybe the Dark Power takes a liking to the Ghoul? Maybe it offers the Ghoul favours in return for favours? Represented OOC by the Dark Power offering to spend it’s Strings on the Ghoul on Hard Moves that benefit the Ghoul (in uncomfortable ways, of course… “happiness always comes at someone else’s expense) instead of the Ghoul straight-up taking Infernal moves (which is more like stealing their thunder).
I’d have the Dark Power play the Infernal and the Ghoul off each other in this situation. Make them wonder who’s its favourite.
Lawrence Tobius Sampson Greene That is an excellent idea! I was already thinking of having the Dark Power start offering the Ghoul favors, trying to draw her in even more. But the idea of playing them off of one another is pretty inspired.
Aw, shucks 🙂 Would love to hear how it goes!
One of the things I’ve noticed about Monsterhearts is the game can sound a bit like it’s “MC vs players” when we’re talking about these sorts of thigs… but the drama is the point, right? And it doesn’t always end the way you’d think. We had one game where the Witch spent the entire game being a villainous power-hungry monster, using sacrifice and debasing ritual to finally consume and become a demon with god-like power, only to have to immediately join forces with the other PCs to defeat the Fey Queen who had been manipulating the Fey into opening a portal to allow her to invade the mortal realm… the Witch ended up sacrificing herself for the greater good in the end.
There is a looooong story to that game…