So this past game was kind of a clusterfuck of rules. Can a heel-to-win swerve be interrupted? How does a face ever win if a heel never loses? What are some examples both kayfabe and backstage to deal with this? Does a heel need to show how they won to actually win, so it makes sense fictionally?
An example from tonight’s game: face was booked to win in triple threat cage/ladder. Face was out cold from a big spot, and the other two were heels. One heel grabbed the other’s mask and turned it so it blinded him and went to climb the cage trying to use the heel move to win. The other heel spent 1 momentum to use the interrupt. Is this possible in the rules?
Up until this point we were really focused on the fiction and making the match exciting and believable, but wanting to “win” got in the way when creative announced the booking.
We ended with a little salt, which died down after discussing it for a bit, but I figured I would run it by the experts.
Does the method of winning have to make sense in fiction? Like the cattle prod on Goldberg type thing? Or in a cage match secret handcuffs hidden by the heel?
Would disrupting a players mask result in a win with a third party, and if not force a heel player to pick another option instead of win?
Sorry for the long post but it was confusing. And thank you for your time.
Sorry that you had a sour note! This is a fairly common question/concern, especially for folks less soaked in wrestling tropes.
First, mechanically, the Interrupt gives narrative control to the second character, but the wrestler who used the Heel Move is still booked to win the match. The second Heel could potentially use their own Heel Move to rebook themselves to win the match, requiring some act in the match where they act underhanded or cheat to spoil the first one’s effort.
The method of winning should reflect the underhandedness and the cheating! As long as the imaginary viewing audience can see that the Heel cheated in order to win, it matches the intent of the rule.
The asymmetry of the rules means that generally Babyface’s need to chase the Heels during a feud. The good guy needs to get momentum on their side, maybe add stipulations, and otherwise do what they can to make the Heel (a) burn all of their Momentum so they can’t potentially make the move and/or (b) fictionally maneuver to where the player doesn’t want to make the Heel Move, you know? But part of being a long-term Babyface is the underdog narrative where victory is constantly snatched from your grasp, so maybe there is some player buy-in of that potential that could be talked out.
Hope some of that helps! Happy to talk out anything in more detail, of course.
okay so meta discussion about maybe it would be better for the feud if you didn’t use it this match is acceptable?
Sure!
Alternately, it could be presented in terms of what the wrestler was told backstage before the match, like “remember that the booker told you that he needs Jonny Goldstar to get a win to give him cred with the audience, and if you make him look good here then you’ll be booked to come back for your revenge” – it’s important that the player still be able to make the choice to stick with it or swerve the booking, but you can give that choice more context than just “do you want to win this match or not”.
Something I try to always convey to my players is that much like real pro wrestling it’s not as important who wins the match as it is to get over with the audience. Taking a loss can build up a feud, gain a wrestler camera time and create a narrative that gets the audience excited. As Nathan said, you can use backstage business to guide your players to understand the bookers narrative through management or other wrestlers(PC’s and NPW’s). You also can give punitive matches to show the consequences of bucking the Booker. I wouldn’t be malicious but it does remind players that the wrestlers are there doing a job and they do have an employer with expectations.
As with all RPG’s, all that matters is the players having fun. If everyone is trying to swerve every match then some of the spirit of the game is lost. Having a calm discussion about expectations and a reminder about generous role-playing usually gets everyone back on the same page. Truly epic matches come from both wrestlers trying to make the other guy look good.
Sorry so long. Hope it helps.