Ware implanting is kinda weird mechanically. You need to spend (At least) 8 cred in the first place just to get the ‘ware, 2 ‘ware on the street doc and even THEN you’ve got a 40% chance to actually get you’re ware implemented right. That’s with literally the best doctor you can buy.
That feels really weird and out of genre for most cyberpunk. Molly Millions would be falling apart at the seams with all she’s got installed with those sort of odds.
Well, if you want good, safe stuff you could simply ask a corporation to hook you up. Sure there are some strings, but I bet it’d be fine, right?
That wasn’t really my point…Street Docs are a staple of the genre but I can’t think of any fiction where they are this unreliable even after you’ve spent enough cash to buy a tank.
But that kind of IS the point, right? Sure. Anyone can get cyberwear if they save up enough. But it won’t be top of the line gear, or the implantation won’t go smoothly, or there will be some other problem. If you want to avoid that, go to a Corp. It reinforces that Corps have everything, and everyone else is fighting for scraps.
Yeah but…that doesn’t line up with basically any cyberpunk I can think of. It also irks me on a mechanical level as it’s the only thing that has 2 points of failure in the system since you need to find it THEN you need to roll for implanting. It would be like if you had to roll after you bought your gun to see if you got a bum deal on the gun. You already rolled and paid for it.
I don’t know what part of the genre it’s trying to emulate.
The way I see it, it is reinforcing the fact you are a scrub. You have to get by on scraps while the Corps have everything.
Our of curiosity, what cyberpunk media are you thinking of when you say this doesn’t align?
The titular Sprawl trilogy, mostly.
It’s a very weird place for ‘ware as nothing else requires 2 rolls. You can buy a helicopter or a rocket launcher and it’s certain to work fine but the most basic skillwires and you need to roll a second time, spending MORE money to have any bonus to that roll.
Isn’t a pivotal plot point of Neuromancer Case’s having his nervous system being “fixed” by Armitage, only to find out later he’s been fucked over?
Hitting the Street to get the cyberware you want to implant, then Going under the Knife to have it installed is two moves. Replacing a part of your body is an expensive, messy process, where any number of things could go wrong.
Yeah, that’s the nature of my complaint. Literally nothing else requires 2 rolls, it could have been easily folded into the Hitting the Streets, which already has room for complications.
In a 2d6 system with the usual max being +2 to a roll, adding extra rolls makes things less and less certain. You have a 16% chance to actually get cyberware installed without things going wrong at some stage. That’s if you are spending literally as much money as the system allows to improve your chances.
In contrast, getting a cybernetic replacement limb that just restores functionality is not even worth a roll. It just happens between missions, with no worries going under the knife. That is a vast chasm in difference.
But a cybernetic (or heck, a cloned) limb that simply restores functionality is not worth rolling for. It’s cosmetic. It’s flavor. The “important” stuff that lets you do things an un-augmented human couldn’t normally do is worth rolling for.
It’s also not as if Hitting the Streets is the only way to get cyberware. You could boost it from somewhere, “liberate” it from a job site, have someone give it to you as payment.
The game is making a statement about how difficult, dangerous, and costly getting chromed is.
This totally reflects cyberpunk 2020.
I get the feeling this isn’t something I’m going to get people to agree with me over. I guess I’ll have to houserule it into something that makes a bit more sense to me when I run.
As right now, the risks make very little sense to me. 16% chance of success (In a best case scenario) for something you paid 10 Cred for is…silly in my opinion.
You say “16% chance of success”. But regardless of what the player rolls for Hit the Streets, they’re still very often going to get the gear the character was after. Regardless of what they player rolls for Go Under the Knife, the character has the cyberwear installed.
No? It’s only 7+ on Hit the Streets that gets you what you want and only 10+ that actually gets you a proper installation, anything less than that and you it was done improperly.
As an aside: The lack of any rules for having another PC install the ‘ware for you is kinda weird when there is an entire playbook for being the sort of person who could do that.
A 7+ on Hit the Streets explicitly states “you get what you want”. There will just be strings attached on the result of a 7-9. Maybe it will take a while to get the item. Maybe you’ll have to do someone a favor first. Maybe someone takes an interest in what you’re doing.
A 6- on Hit the Streets doesn’t mean the player fails, it means the MC makes a move. Just like with everything else. “Nothing happens” or “You fail” is not an MC move.
Same thing for Go Under the Knife. A 6- says “There have been… complications.” Not “You fail.” A 7-9 means things are interesting, and a 10+ means things are perfect. Perfect is pretty boring.
There are rules for PCs installing cyberwear in other PCs. You handle it the same way as anything else not specifically covered by a move: MC moves. And the Tech does have rules for installing cyberwear: the Customizer move combined with the Splicer area of expertise.
Chris, could you give an example of a PC installing cyberware for another PC? Seems Customizer is the way to go but I’d be curious about it in practice.
I tend to agree with Eirin. Nobody in the group I play with has gone for additional cyberware and I have a feeling it’s pretty rare in most groups to get it after character creation. Maybe not.
It’s hard to give an example of a PC Tech installing cyberwear in another PC because of the nature of the Customizer move. You essentially hash out the details and costs with the MC and the other player. I’ll try to write up an example later Brian Schoff.
Is your group adverse to having more cyberwear installed because of the cost and risk? Or is it something they’re simply not interested in doing? There’s a big difference there.
In my group, a PC got shot for a bit of damage right in the first session. Immediately after the mission ended, she marched right off to a Corp to have dermal plating installed.
And just took +Hunted or +Owned?
Don’t worry about the example if it would take a while! I was just curious.
I feel it’s more the costs and risks but it could be a bit of both. I had a Driver and he’d spend his money on vehicles, not more cyberware anyway.
Yeah, a lot of it is that basically anything else is a safer investment than cyberware. Less rolls for potential failure and cheaper (Since you pay twice and risk twice for ‘ware).
I could see ‘ware being more tempting if it was Synth rather than Creds for Go Under The Knife. Then at least you wouldn’t be spending resources for a slight reduction in how bad things are likely to go. Snyth is a bit of an under-used stat right now unless you load up on ‘ware too. No Basic Move meshes with it.
I’m on my way to MC a game right now, but something in your last comment stood out to me.
“Anything else is a safer investment.”
If the characters wanted safety, why did they become runners? Nothing about being a runner is safe or secure. If you want security, you become a corporate drone and work within the system. Not outside of it.
I’m not talking about safer in-universe. I’m talking about safer, from a player perspective. Those are two very different things, especially in PBTA which has a rather meta perspective on a lot of stuff. It is a safer investment for a player to go ‘I’ll spend 8 buying myself a military-grade helicopter’ than ‘I’ll spend 10 to MAYBE have ‘ware that’s not more downside than it is upside’.
Sorry if I seem snappish, it’s just a personal bugbear when I’m talking about mechanical or game design things and people go ‘No but roleplaying’ so anything similar to that tends to get me a bit riled up.
Also..sprawl is meant to be moddable. If you want it to be cheaper, adjust costs, and adjust difficulties. If you want a game where cyberware is more common feel free. Just keep in mind the scaling curve of power it generates by making tech more accessable.
My Interpretation of failure is maybe different. Complications are interesting. In my group they dont pay 8 for everything. Cyberears and eyes are so common they pay about 2-4.