Folks have reached out stating their distaste for the use of the word “Giri” in The Veil today. As a result it’s being changed to “Obligation”.
This change has already been made for 2nd printing that is upcoming. If you feel like there is more problematic content in the game than just that this, and you do want to reach out, which I do not expect you to be obligated to do for any reason. Feel free to contact me.
I’ll update everything later on, so far this is the only change beyond the update already on DrivethruRPG.
When will the 2nd printing be available for purchasing? And how?
I like the change, because it clears it up for me. Would you mind explaining what’s problematic about it? I’m ignorant
I’m curious about the distaste for “giri” -what was their concern?
It seemed to me that you were using the word consistently with its use in the genre, and with the Japanese cultural influence of the genre.
“Giri” carries with it a deep cultural significance and historical context that is lost with the simple word “obligation.”
.
Yes it does, some people feel like since I refer to it as simply aesthetic and an interchangeable word throughout based on what setting you create, it’s racist and or appropriative.
I thought their snide remark about it on Twitter was just shit posting so I was snide back, and it all blew up because I didn’t take the initial criticism seriously.
I did consult with academia on using the word and how it’s used throughout the book, but the fact that it bothers people is enough reason to change it for the upcoming printing.
The literal definition of obligation is pretty in line with how the mechanics work, so it should be fine. I think also that Giri has become synonymous with the honour trope for Asian cultural depictions in pop culture these days making Honorbound a sore spot I think.
David Rivas It’ll go to the Press along with Cascade when it’s ready for printing.
Fraser Simons thanks for sharing the explanation.
You’ve got the difficult task of responding to these conflicting opinions, and making these decisions for your work of art.
Whether i agree or disagree with a decision, i respect your right to do what you determine is appropriate for your book, and future books, and to promote the kind of message that you want to see in the world.
I”m gonna hang on to my first edition copy and playbooks though!
Oh well, because first printing exists it’ll have to remain downloadable and playable, for sure. I didn’t mean to imply that I’d be deleting first edition. Just that 2nd printing will have that change.
Indeed. I have consulted with 3 more people in academia specific to this subject, all of whom do not feel it’s appropriative or racist. Though, I do admit the introduction to it in terms is just fucking terrible, it’s an incomplete thought followed by aesthetics of the term, so it’s fair for people to be pissed off based on that, probably not even read the rest of it. Rather than just add text around the subject even more in it, I think it’s not a big deal to change the word.
Admittedly because I previously consulted with someone on the book before publishing, and have done so again, it’s a bit of a hard pill to swallow. But I will swallow it.
TBH, I’ll miss the multicultural aspect of The Veil. If Giri becomes Obligation, the whole game will feel very western. Maybe we should call it obligación or obrigação instead. Or perhaps call it Giri/Obligation/Skylda
Yeah, I liked that too. But I think the same argument would be brought up if I changed it to something like that. The literal definition of Obligation is pretty close to Giri, but it isn’t used like that in practice in our culture, usually.
It just occurred to me that I didn’t notice The Veil explicitly including the concept of social-media value (Black Mirror, etc.) ,or ratings hostage situations (Uber, etc.), or good citizen ratings (China). I wonder if this is an opportunity to introduce this concept? Instead of a one-to-one obligation, you could have a semi-public social ranking that’s held hostage. I’m not sure what you’d call that. (Social Credit?)
I tried to have that in early play tests and it was overwhelming for people. People already feel like it’s a big drift just because of the mental shift from traditional stat modifiers to emotions. I tried to drift more and people were just like ahhhh. Its definitely one of the more heavy cognitive load games already.
Its your art, you should have stayed the course. If people find it distasteful they can learn to live with it, that’s what adults do. Very much like your game, and the book has a wonderful feel to it (tactile).
The change made it into the text but if you search the changed PDF, it shows up still in the little sections of the playbooks that are included in the main book…
I am a little annoyed at the change (because I know you did look into it) but this is partially because I can’t find my print copy as a KS backer so I went and bought another print copy at Big Bad Con today (we’re running a campaign for The Veil soon) and my print copy isn’t going to be current. I didn’t think about it when I bought it (that there was going to be a second printing done at all in physical form).
The first printing is still available and reflective of that printing, you’ll just also have the opportunity to use the second printing PDF as well, if you like. You’ll be able to download both versions of the PDF so that it matches the print copy and the mechanics all work the same.
Fraser Simons I’m more saddened that you felt the need to change Giri because someone complained even though you were using it correctly.
Well, it wasn’t just one person and the person who broached it was Asian, I can’t discount their opinion. And I mention in the game that it is interchangeable to match the setting. Using it does default people to an Asian Aesthetic, especially how it was written in the introduction; I’d rather have people not have that assumption and build something cool from the ground up anyways. If you’re not in an Asian setting I wrote that you should change the name. The fact that they feel so strongly I didn’t do it properly is enough reason to change it regardless how I feel I did by it anyhow.
I’ve submitted the Giri->Obligation word change to the Roll20 character sheet. It’ll probably go live within a week or two. If you want to look at the change now, you can jump into this game: https://app.roll20.net/join/2187332/FbbgXA
Plex Soup thanks a lot!
Good news: the updated character sheet went live today; a lot faster than I expected.
Awesome! Thanks a lot for making that change, I appreciate it. And the sheet!
Uhhhhh, politically correct ridiculousness, and I’m sorry to hear you’ve bent over for it. Just because something triggers some oversensitive soul doesn’t mean you’re wrong. ‘Giri’ has flavour and a specific kind of connotation, which is largely lost with ‘obligation’.