Hello community.

Hello community.

Hello community.

Me and other players together with MC are trying to establish the fiction for all the archetypes before the actual game session. During that process we encountered some disagreements. As one player will be playing Vamp we need to elaborate on the feeding and hunger for that archetype. We designed a few stages of vampirism. Corps eaters -> blood suckers -> emotion eaters (last the highest). Players is the emotion eater.

I think that it should be a nuisance for the character. I would go as far as feeding dayly is necessity. Being a vampire gives immortality and supernatural powers but with cost.

The player and MC want hunger to be kick in only in presents of a tasty bit (person with intense emotions) not as regular feeding need.

In your opinion what is the intention of playbook? How important the feeding process should be for a vamp? Should feeding only be used when character wants benefits of the move? How often in your experience should a vamp eat?

We know that in fiction we can go with everything but we don’t want to loose the essence of the archetype.

48 thoughts on “Hello community.”

  5. Ok. So it’s free to decide in you opinion.

    Remember that rpg is always a conversation. We are taking about it online prior to the session to save time. We tend to discuss all world making. The vampires become part of the world and this is always the result of collaboration. I’m asking what do you think the card and the corebook says about vamp. It’s clearly not free to decide. You cannot says that vampire feeding is desecrate and hidden because rulebook says that there is no grace in vamps feeding. At least that is how we see it.

    Of course each player can decide himself but there is no fun in that.

  6. Ok. So it’s free to decide in you opinion.

    Remember that rpg is always a conversation. We are taking about it online prior to the session to save time. We tend to discuss all world making. The vampires become part of the world and this is always the result of collaboration. I’m asking what do you think the card and the corebook says about vamp. It’s clearly not free to decide. You cannot says that vampire feeding is desecrate and hidden because rulebook says that there is no grace in vamps feeding. At least that is how we see it.

    Of course each player can decide himself but there is no fun in that.

  7. i think it is very much up to the player, there is not answer other than what works for the vamp player, what is most narratively and thematically resonant to them.

    the player deciding for themselves is one of the uniquely fun bits with a game like urban shadows, that many other games do not allow you to do because many other games are focused on simple answers that do not allow you the type of creative control that pbta games give you.

    so in that way, i feel like asking for answers online is a bit disjointed from what the game is about. it is not about the vamp of the people on the internet. it is about your vamp. it is not about the city of the people on the internet. it is about your city.

    please do not take this as anger or offense or chewing you out, because i by no means intend that. i just very much feel like worrying about that kind of question in the way you are is more than a bit inappropriate for the kind of game that urban shadows is.

  8. i think it is very much up to the player, there is not answer other than what works for the vamp player, what is most narratively and thematically resonant to them.

    the player deciding for themselves is one of the uniquely fun bits with a game like urban shadows, that many other games do not allow you to do because many other games are focused on simple answers that do not allow you the type of creative control that pbta games give you.

    so in that way, i feel like asking for answers online is a bit disjointed from what the game is about. it is not about the vamp of the people on the internet. it is about your vamp. it is not about the city of the people on the internet. it is about your city.

    please do not take this as anger or offense or chewing you out, because i by no means intend that. i just very much feel like worrying about that kind of question in the way you are is more than a bit inappropriate for the kind of game that urban shadows is.

  9. Sure not at all offended. I came here because we had this disagreement. We play almost only PBTA games. Usually we have discussions regarding the fiction of the game. We tend to design the fiction together. In Urban Shadows we have these archetypes which become definitions for whole groups living in the city.

    I guess my question should be: how strict you should follow the rule book and playbook. The issue was in interpretation of the book. Is you probably noticed o am not native speaker and sometimes we have issues with guessing the intention behind the rule. Ok I think I know how to approach this. Thank you Monique for elaborate reply.

  10. Sure not at all offended. I came here because we had this disagreement. We play almost only PBTA games. Usually we have discussions regarding the fiction of the game. We tend to design the fiction together. In Urban Shadows we have these archetypes which become definitions for whole groups living in the city.

    I guess my question should be: how strict you should follow the rule book and playbook. The issue was in interpretation of the book. Is you probably noticed o am not native speaker and sometimes we have issues with guessing the intention behind the rule. Ok I think I know how to approach this. Thank you Monique for elaborate reply.

  11. The playbooks in every PbtA game I have seen are open ended to allow for interpretation of the player playing them. If your root question is “what is intended with the playbook?” the answer must then be “it is intended to be decided by the player playing the playbook”.

    What you are doing, by taking someone’s playbook and making decisions by committee, is taking away their agency. This is how you get arguments and dissatisfaction with the game.

    If you want to play the game as intended, you’ll have to trust individual players. A lot of this is sounding like the table is worried one playing is going to do something stupid or disruptive and they won’t like it. Trust them. Trust they can do it on their own without your input. Try a little trust and I bet you’ll all enjoy the game a bit more.

  12. The playbooks in every PbtA game I have seen are open ended to allow for interpretation of the player playing them. If your root question is “what is intended with the playbook?” the answer must then be “it is intended to be decided by the player playing the playbook”.

    What you are doing, by taking someone’s playbook and making decisions by committee, is taking away their agency. This is how you get arguments and dissatisfaction with the game.

    If you want to play the game as intended, you’ll have to trust individual players. A lot of this is sounding like the table is worried one playing is going to do something stupid or disruptive and they won’t like it. Trust them. Trust they can do it on their own without your input. Try a little trust and I bet you’ll all enjoy the game a bit more.

  13. The beauty and fun of PbtA games is that you establish the fiction during play, not before. ‘Play to find out’ is the core rule, and it means in your example that the feeding habits or stages of vampirism do not get to be decided prior to the session, maybe not even in the first session. The Vamp’s Eternal Hunger rule means that she rolls that move when the event is triggered in the fiction, but it does not mean that she is hungry (and feeds) only when she decides to be, or that shee feeds only when she makes the move.

    The MC move “activate their stuff’s downside” includes telling the Vamp that her body craves for blood, if the MC feels that the Vamp is going too easy on themselves hunger-wise. Also, “offer an opportunity with a cost” is a good move to trigger the hunger, if a tasty NPC appears but the Vamp can’t feed on this NPC because he is an ally of another PC or a powerful enemy, for example.

    Also, the corruption rules cover the ‘great power comes at great cost’ mechanics, and it’s part of the game to interpret that in the fiction, during play.

    These are the rules as written, as far as I know. Also, as everyone else says, you can all discuss it, but the player should decide when their Vamp should feed, and the only prerequisite is that it leaves a possibility for the MC to activate the downside of her feeding habit in fiction. But this is already in the rules, since the Vamp’s feeding move comes with a risk (as does every PbtA move).

    But let me give you a counter-question: if both the Player and the MC are OK with the Vamp feeling hunger only when encountering a tasty emotional person, why do you think she needs more constraints? What would be a benefit to the fiction of having to feed every day?

  14. The beauty and fun of PbtA games is that you establish the fiction during play, not before. ‘Play to find out’ is the core rule, and it means in your example that the feeding habits or stages of vampirism do not get to be decided prior to the session, maybe not even in the first session. The Vamp’s Eternal Hunger rule means that she rolls that move when the event is triggered in the fiction, but it does not mean that she is hungry (and feeds) only when she decides to be, or that shee feeds only when she makes the move.

    The MC move “activate their stuff’s downside” includes telling the Vamp that her body craves for blood, if the MC feels that the Vamp is going too easy on themselves hunger-wise. Also, “offer an opportunity with a cost” is a good move to trigger the hunger, if a tasty NPC appears but the Vamp can’t feed on this NPC because he is an ally of another PC or a powerful enemy, for example.

    Also, the corruption rules cover the ‘great power comes at great cost’ mechanics, and it’s part of the game to interpret that in the fiction, during play.

    These are the rules as written, as far as I know. Also, as everyone else says, you can all discuss it, but the player should decide when their Vamp should feed, and the only prerequisite is that it leaves a possibility for the MC to activate the downside of her feeding habit in fiction. But this is already in the rules, since the Vamp’s feeding move comes with a risk (as does every PbtA move).

    But let me give you a counter-question: if both the Player and the MC are OK with the Vamp feeling hunger only when encountering a tasty emotional person, why do you think she needs more constraints? What would be a benefit to the fiction of having to feed every day?

  15. My Vamp player and I discussed this a bit before play (I don’t think that’s such a great sin) and filled in more details during play. She wanted it to work the way your Vamp player and MC want it to work, so that’s how we did it. If other players had chimed in and said they thought it should be different, I would have explained that they get to decide with me how their playbooks work, and the Vamp’s player gets to be in charge of her playbook. It’s not as if other playbooks have such massive drawbacks built into them, or like the Vamp’s feeding move is so amazingly powerful that you need to add drawbacks that aren’t ever demanded by the rules.

  16. My Vamp player and I discussed this a bit before play (I don’t think that’s such a great sin) and filled in more details during play. She wanted it to work the way your Vamp player and MC want it to work, so that’s how we did it. If other players had chimed in and said they thought it should be different, I would have explained that they get to decide with me how their playbooks work, and the Vamp’s player gets to be in charge of her playbook. It’s not as if other playbooks have such massive drawbacks built into them, or like the Vamp’s feeding move is so amazingly powerful that you need to add drawbacks that aren’t ever demanded by the rules.

  17. Maybe it was my lack of experience with the US. I haven’t clarified that the discussion we had is about vampires generally. Not the specific Vamp who is player’s character. This was my misunderstanding of the system. I though it is different than other PBTA games in regards that we all contribute in fiction regarding archetype if it involves the lore of the world. We now separated the vampires as a race and vamp as player character. I think that it is clear now.

    Thanks for all advices. The thing with playbook is also clear to me now.

  18. Maybe it was my lack of experience with the US. I haven’t clarified that the discussion we had is about vampires generally. Not the specific Vamp who is player’s character. This was my misunderstanding of the system. I though it is different than other PBTA games in regards that we all contribute in fiction regarding archetype if it involves the lore of the world. We now separated the vampires as a race and vamp as player character. I think that it is clear now.

    Thanks for all advices. The thing with playbook is also clear to me now.

  19. In case it’s helpful, I let my player define the lore of the one kind of vampire she belonged to (which we called “breathtakers”), and I filled in the details on the others (bloodsuckers and flesheaters). My players are usually pretty happy to let the GM make any such decisions, though, so it actually takes some effort to get them to contribute to lore sometimes.

  20. In case it’s helpful, I let my player define the lore of the one kind of vampire she belonged to (which we called “breathtakers”), and I filled in the details on the others (bloodsuckers and flesheaters). My players are usually pretty happy to let the GM make any such decisions, though, so it actually takes some effort to get them to contribute to lore sometimes.

  21. I always asked my players about anything in their playbook’s purview, but made sure they knew I was in charge.

    “Hey Vamp, do all vampires feed like you? No? Cool, well you can tell this one is a bloodsucker from the size of her fangs”

    “Hey Hunter, are there any functioning hunter groups in the city? Yeah? Well this is one of them. You’ve heard something special about their leader. What is it?”

  22. I always asked my players about anything in their playbook’s purview, but made sure they knew I was in charge.

    “Hey Vamp, do all vampires feed like you? No? Cool, well you can tell this one is a bloodsucker from the size of her fangs”

    “Hey Hunter, are there any functioning hunter groups in the city? Yeah? Well this is one of them. You’ve heard something special about their leader. What is it?”

  29. Look at “Eternal Hunger” on the vamp playbook. They need to feed when they want to heal 1 harm, learn a secret or take 1 forward. If you listen to what they desperately need and throw shit at them in the way of that they will go and feed so they can hit the numbers they need to accomplish their desperate need. (or to overcome threats to them)

    As far as “nothing can hurt him”, bullshit. Invulnerability isn’t part of being a vampire in this game. If he wants to be really good at avoiding getting hurt, look at the Basic Move “keep your cool”. He can be really good at that move but it’s not invulnerability.

    Have you read the rules of the game?

  30. Look at “Eternal Hunger” on the vamp playbook. They need to feed when they want to heal 1 harm, learn a secret or take 1 forward. If you listen to what they desperately need and throw shit at them in the way of that they will go and feed so they can hit the numbers they need to accomplish their desperate need. (or to overcome threats to them)

    As far as “nothing can hurt him”, bullshit. Invulnerability isn’t part of being a vampire in this game. If he wants to be really good at avoiding getting hurt, look at the Basic Move “keep your cool”. He can be really good at that move but it’s not invulnerability.

    Have you read the rules of the game?

  31. Jason Corley sure I have red. According to fiction of player playing vamp. Normal bullets do not harm him. Silver only gives a rush and sunlight make weaker but do not harm and kill.

    I’m just a player and by following guidance of MC and even people from this community I though it is not against the rule.

  32. Jason Corley sure I have red. According to fiction of player playing vamp. Normal bullets do not harm him. Silver only gives a rush and sunlight make weaker but do not harm and kill.

    I’m just a player and by following guidance of MC and even people from this community I though it is not against the rule.

  37. Aleksander Wojtal Sorry I deleted my last comment accidentaly. It is a bit tricky with US and maybe easy to assume that this sort of thing can be determined in the fiction, but I think it’s a general rule with PbtA games that you can determine in fiction anything that there are no rules about.

    But harm has actual rules and the Spectre has a sort-of immunity to harm, so you cannot just rule that another playbook can be totally immune to harm.

    What playbook are you playing?

  38. Aleksander Wojtal Sorry I deleted my last comment accidentaly. It is a bit tricky with US and maybe easy to assume that this sort of thing can be determined in the fiction, but I think it’s a general rule with PbtA games that you can determine in fiction anything that there are no rules about.

    But harm has actual rules and the Spectre has a sort-of immunity to harm, so you cannot just rule that another playbook can be totally immune to harm.

    What playbook are you playing?

  41. It sounds like the MC and player didn’t read the Vamp playbook or the rules about Harm. Encourage them to. Since you’re a player, though, ultimately if they’re having fun and you’re having fun then it’s good to go.

  42. It sounds like the MC and player didn’t read the Vamp playbook or the rules about Harm. Encourage them to. Since you’re a player, though, ultimately if they’re having fun and you’re having fun then it’s good to go.

  45. If you’re not the player or the mc, don’t sweat. Feeding is only part of what makes the vamp a vamp, so if the player is more interested in the other parts, let them focus o on that.

  46. If you’re not the player or the mc, don’t sweat. Feeding is only part of what makes the vamp a vamp, so if the player is more interested in the other parts, let them focus o on that.

Comments are closed.