Hi,
I am running a WiP game and we have been facing some issues with conditions. Here I go:
– How many moderate conditions can you have? Do they work like minor conditions and you can have as many as you want?
– When stating villians, the book describes their “health points” as X x number of PCs involved in the scene. Are those critical conditions? Do moderate or minor conditions qualify?
– We find the negative modifiers of critical conditions too harsh. They are a pretty big deal and scalate quicky. Once you get a -2, you are pretty sure you are going down. That negative modifier will make you roll <6 frequently, thus going to -3 or even -4 if you can afford it. In our little experience with the game, PCs with critical conditions feel crippled and are encouraged to flee. They don't even consider risking a fight until Last Chance move because with a -2 or -3 you are not going to win anyway, so why risk your life pointlessly? As a GM I feel like their mother and am afraid to use critical conditions.
Thoughts? Opinions? Are we doing something wrong?
Sub
– there is no limit to the amount of moderate or minor conditions a character can have, however there is a limit to the penalty on any single roll: -3. So if you had four moderate conditions that all should affect a roll in the fiction, that still only confers a -3 on the roll and not a -4
– The Condition Threshold for a villain is reduced by any condition, even a minor one. That said, just like with the players, a different level of condition should affect the villain differently in the fiction.
-the last question is the same answer as the first: roll penalties never get worse than -3. Consider that a player can have a +3 to a stat, and then receive a +2 from the Aid move; he would be rolling at a +2 regardless of any conditions he has.
-3 max penalty: ok
Villain conditions: If you can defeat a villain with a minor condition (cost 1), why would you ever choose to inflict a critical condition (cost 3)? A cost 3 critical condition soaks all the 3 points you get for a 10+ roll, thus leaving you open to damage!
Is that just for PvP? Should players in PvNPC just choose the 1-point minor condition and save the rest for other options?
Finally, your last example is pretty extreme, in my opinion. You need a +3 to the stat in question (leveled PC using his best stat) and the succesful help of two mates. I don’t think that is common. Besides, unless you are the only one able to damage the enemy, they better leave you behind and hit him themselves.
that’s what the fiction is for. If my player inflicts a minor condition, maybe he just knocks the enemy down for a second. he’s giving somebody else a moment to attack, but in a second the villain will get up and lose that minor condition again. If he inflict a moderate condition, maybe the villain is wounded but it doesn’t really affect him that much beyond it. If he inflicts a critical condition, maybe they get to cut off a hand, disable a limb some other way, prevent a power from being used, etc. It’s all about the fictional impact of the conditions. The “min-max” option is always to pick a moderate condition and take no harm on a 10+, but that doesn’t mean the players will never choose to inflict a critical condition if they realize this fact; in my experience, players like doing things like cutting off hands 😀
As for my example, i would simply point to the copious examples in superhero fiction of this very thing happening 🙂
Looks like David has got it down, so yeah like he said, players can try to dish out Minor Conditions, but they have very little staying power. If they can team up and take an enemy down quickly then it might work, but bigger bads should be shrugging off Minor Conditions like the minor hindrances they are.
I also wanted to point out that Bonds are meant to be Burned in desperate situations (when Conditions have been stacked up). That way you not only get some drama to happen when they get their downtime, but they can also automatically succeed when they need to during dramatically tense moments.
Thanks for the answers and examples.
I still think -2 or -3 is too much, but the part of choosing how to spend your points in take down and villian’s conditions is much clearer now.
We’ve been talking in the group. For players we are going to change conditions. For each condition you have, GM can tag it once to reduce one level the result of any move where the condition could hinder you.
We kind of stole it from FATE consecuences.
Though this version of conditions do not screw you constantly, they are still present and they are GM-handled (so you can use them to empower the drama when appropriate).
I am giving a thought to the Burnout move and I think PCs will still want to ensure a win without a roll or to carry out an impossible action from time to time.
Let’s see how it works.
I’m not sure I completely understand, but do let me know how it goes. It seems like that would make things a lot easier on the players, for better or worse.
I think it’s important to know that, as the GM, you’re the one both representing the world accurately and consistently, and choosing which threats and obstacles are thrown their way. So if the challenges/obstacles/threats are mild (mobs or punching bags, for example) the players shouldn’t really be taking Conditions other than Minor ones regardless, with Moderate being a possibility – though it really depends a lot on the players powers and capabilities (but you should be adjusting this to allow for the right balance of fun and difficulty as the GM regardless).
If a threat really is big and important, then players should struggle to come out on top and should be accruing Conditions that make it harder and harder to win. When they’re down at the bottom they really do need good reasons that lead to drama to dig deep within themselves, or to sacrifice, in order to be heroes – and that’s what Burning Bonds are for.
Not to mention, just like enemies, players can get rid of Conditions by simply saying what they do in the fiction to get rid of them too, right. If they’re racking up Minor or Moderate Conditions, they should also be thinking about dealing with them before trying to take out the bad guy rather than just gritting their teeth and coming up against penalties the whole time. I have a feeling that the reason they aren’t being able to deal with Conditions is because the GM isn’t being imaginative about it. Think like you’re actually reading a comic book and the kinds of Conditions that are usually dealt, and dealt with, pretty easily and quickly – having movement restricted by the elements, or debris, or gadgets. Or emotional ones that make them angry and reckless so they have to calm down or think logically, etc. Conditions shouldn’t always be purely physical or about how broken and bloody your body is. The type of Condition needs to match the Minor-Moderate-Critical scale as well, too.
Hope that helps!
It does help, but a new doubt arises: Can you get rid of a condition without the Fit In move? (other than minor conditions, of course)
Definitely! The Fit In move is for getting rid of well, any Condition really, but specifically for the ones that need time, rest, healing or otherwise can’t just be dealt with right away.
Conditions can be anything, so if a Condition is “angry” then the PC would just have to say how they go about calming down. If the Condition is “Buried under Rubble” or “Frozen Solid” then they just have to say how they get out from the rubble or break out of their ice prison, etc. so it depends what Conditions are being Imposed on them. Most of the time Moderate Conditions are sustained as consequences for ignoring Minor ones, but many of them can still be dealt with depending on the fiction, their powers.
Oh my! We really thought you could only do that with minor conditions. For moderate and critical I was telling them they were sticky and the had to carry on with them or stop for a Fit In.
My mind is too mechanical. I am glad to hear how fiction is integrated in the game.
By the way, it is freaking awesome to be discussing the rules of a game with the designer himself. You rock, dude!
I’m glad I could help 🙂
Thanks to everybody here!
On Monday evening, I played Worlds in Peril with my friends and I started thinking about how conditions are fluid in the fiction. I like how they work, but I was just looking for a post like this to be sure my understanding was correct.
I definitely have to bookmark this post. 😉