Category: Urban Shadows RPG: Discussion

Hello Urban Shadows Community,

 

it was only until recently that I have stumbled across Urban Shadows. It’s quite unique and I am looking forward to GMing it for my group (, although I would wish that ALL the Archetypes would already be available ^^). To my surprise a quick search on the internet did not reveal any active forums or subforums dedicated to Urban Shadows.

 

That’s why I’ve come here to ask my questions regarding Debt in the game and the associated mechanics.

 

My group and I enjoy all kind of games, but we mainly play good old Vampire: the Masquerade. We like us some intrigue, conspiracies and backstabbing. Debts are often used as currency between vampires, so I looked at the Debt Moves from Urban Shadows and thought “That’s really nice, my players will like that”.

 

But after thinking it through, I came across some issues, mainly that my players are sneaky bastards and highly intelligent. Promises are not given lightly and not honoring a debt can leave you without friends quickly, no question. But through lies, deception and smart choices, debts can sometimes be turned around and the original purpose of a debt or promise can be twisted.

 

And that leads me to the (in my opinion) big difference between Debts in Vampire: the Masquearde compared to Urban Shadows. In Vampire: the Masquerade (and many other games) debts only exist ingame. Honoring or not honoring a debt has ingame consequences on the storytelling level. If someone asks me to do something in order to repay my debt, I can accept the task, but then weasel my way out or at least try.

 

For example, I am ordered to assassinate someone. I am a professional hitman, so asking me to kill someone is a reasonable job. But for some reason I don’t want to kill the target. So I have a plethora of options. I could kill my client in a sneaky way, so nobody knows that I am an asshole, who does not honor debts. I could warn the target and then tell my client “Sorry bro, but he obviously has very high security measurements”. I could fake the assassination and help the target escape (or plot revenge). I could set one of my own schemes in motion to distract everyone from killing each other.

 

So there are a lot of options to avoid honoring my debt. And in some cases those might not lead to any negative consequences for me. But Debts in Urban Shadows are more than ingame obligations. In Urban Shadows (compared to e.g. V:tM) they have mechanical consequences and are defined in game terms. So someone has to decide in an impartial and objective way when a Debt is created, when it is paid, when it is honored and when not. But this may not be obvious for the PCs and NPCs ingame.

 

If someone thinks I owe him/her a Debt, is this already a legitimate Debt? If I let someone think I owe him/her a Debt is THAT a legitimate Debt? Can it be a Debt if I already know that I will not do anything for the other person (, because for example I plan to betray them very soon)?

 

Because it depends on whether there is a Debt or not if I actually have to refuse to honor the Debt. And if the other person THINKS I will honor the Debt, but in secret I know that I will not, do I use the “Refuse to Honor a Debt” Move? Because the consequences of not honoring a Debt may make no sense under some circumstances. Owing even more Debts may make no sense, depending on the original Debts. Losing face with their faction can be avoided if I obfuscate my dishonor. And if I already know that I will not honor any ANY Debts to this person, I should mark corruption instantly, not when I tell them that I will not do whatever they want. And losing all my Debts from everyone could be circumvented by finishing off the snitch.

 

I know that some of these scenarios seem constructed. But my players love to play smart and always try to find a way out. Sometimes there is one, sometimes not. But when they find a way to cheat the system, the would feel betrayed when I tell them that they cannot escape a Debt. And escaping from ones Debts should be a bold move, that should be considered carefully and can lead to a lot of troubles, especially in a society in which Debts are super important. So trying to cheat everyone is stupid.

 

I have no idea if I can accurately convey my thoughts. English is not my mother tongue, so I may sound super confused ^^.

 

I find the Debt mechanic fascinating, but I cannot wrap my head around it completely. Maybe someone can shed some light on this topic for me. Thanks.