Prescience in roleplaying games:
A question about the Bene Gesserit brought up an interesting point about prediction, prophecy and general future sight in roleplaying games. I had been tooling around with a prophetic skill for the Chosen career for a while, but could never quite come up with something that felt right.
The main issue is that prophecy denies both dice rolls and player choice, in-so-far as it assumes a future series of events. Unless the power is “what will happen by the time I finish speaking this sentence”, almost all predictive powers are either rendered useless by player free will and the dice results, or take control of the game.
A possible solution might lie in the Data Points, and leveraging the cryptic, metaphorical nature of prescience. Instead of earning Data Points about a current or past subject through investigation and Assessment, the prophetic Data would be about potential future events like “The moment I die” or “The wrong word spoken” or “Finding true love”. No need to explain what the prophet saw, it doesn’t translate well. But when the moment comes, they’ll know, and be able to spend that Data Point to get + 1 on the roll that could either change what they foresaw, or ensure it comes true.
That said, I’m open to other paths of approach. Also, anyone know of roleplaying games that do prophecy well?
Because the game is narrative, why not bring the other players into it, and have them reveal the prophesy? Specifically, what I might do would be have the prophesy be three-sentences long. The Bene Dessert “activates” the prophesy. The player to his right “reveals” the first sentence, the player to his left the second and the GM reveals the third. That keeps the interactive nature of the game going but gives the GM ultimate control over how the prophecy plays out.
There is a Dungeon World class that could be useful.
The Farseer.
Jesse R Hm. Interesting. I like the idea of stating a phrase. There might be some design space in an almost Microscope sense?
Filo Becherucci Ooh, got a link or something? Afraid a lot of the Dungeon World classes passed me by.
I’ll try tomorrow asking to some of my friends.
Sean Gomes Yup, exactly. I bought it so I could get ideas for world building. The concepts in it would seem to be along the lines of something that might work in your example. (BTW – Loving the game! I’ve convinced my usual gaming group that’s it time to let me GM something and UW is going to be it :))
Awesome, Jesse R . And yeah, I think I’ll dust off my Microscope pdf and see if I can’t find inspiration in there. Just gotta be restrained, I don’t want to creat a whole new mechanical sub-system just for one Move. Or do I? >_>
Sean Gomes – Hey, you’re the design expert. We all just look to you 🙂
snort “Expert”. Hah. Right. Sure. goes back to flailing randomly at the keyboard in the hopes that Design falls out
I don’t know if it’s conceptually too far afield, but there’s quite a few Tricks in Swords Without Master that allow a player to establish something in the fiction (an enemy, a place, a skill they want to show off) and then when desired (usually while changing Phases) demand that it come into play.
Sean Gomes As your physician and attorney I recommend drinking to help release the Design 🙂
Hm… So, one area of UW design that I haven’t touched with skills is the XP triggers. Usually, characters state behaviors or events that will grant xp. What if….
Could it be that a prescient character can “force” an xp event to happen? Like, instead of “if this happens”, it becomes “this happens”? It would allow for some player-driven pre-determination, but within a limited framework, and open to GM interpretation.
Not having played yet I’m not really qualified to give a useful opinion (’cause, you know, my lack of experience often keeps me from sharing my opinions. Wait. No. That’s not it ;)). Would have that ability OP the prescient class?
Hm. Depends how it gets interpreted, I suppose (note that all this is purely theoretical and will likely need tweaking).
For example, an Industrial Telepath with the Prescience Skill. Their XP trigger, chosen from their Industrial career, is “A structural weakness is exposed”. At any point in the game, the Telepath can declare that they have forseen the event. It WILL happen. But the GM controls how.
So the prophecy the character carries with them is written out ahead of time (because it’s their xp trigger). But they can Deus Ex Machina the event into existence.
Certainly could work. But if the player is foreseeing the event early on does that railroad the GM to push toward a scenario where the event happens?
The xp triggers for most professions don’t change session to session, do they? Assuming so, that means the prescient would be constantly predicting & revealing the same thing. Which is weird and kinda boring.
Also, what’s to stop me from always being like “oh hey there’s a structural flaw on the pursuing ship (again)”?
What if you had some sort of oracle-generator that allowed the prescient to state/write a foreseen event, but the event can’t involve 1) any PC taking a specific action or 2) any inescapable event occurring to a PC (or the ship). Like, you could foresee an airlock cracking and about to blow with a particular PC in it, but not the airlock blowing and them sucking vac. The “vision” is described to the table, and every player knows what it is even if their characters don’t. Maybe some sort of XP reward mechanism is then invoked to drive play toward the moment the vision showed.
Does UW use anything like DW’s grim portents/impending dooms? If so, the move could have the GM reveal a portent / doom that will come pass if things follow their current course. Because that’s exactly what grim portents & impending dooms are–what happens if the PCs do nothing. Maybe the move also gives a hint on how to stop it (and maybe a bonus to do so).
I’ve got a couple more fiddly prescient moves for a DW class I’m working on, might be something you can use. I’ll post them tomorrow when I’m at a real computer.
Well, if I was sitting around writing rpgs and listening to Dune audiobooks, and really being interested in that part where Leto II is quizzing Paul to see how many different futures he has foreseen, I would probably end up writing something like these:
Truth and Consequences
When you examine the strands of possible futures, describe an event that is yet to occur and roll+INT. On a 10+, name three people, groups, or social institutions. On a 7-9, only two. On a miss, name one anyway, in addition to whatever else the GM tells you. For each subject you name, the GM will tell you what sort of consequences this future event will have for them. You may only examine each event once.
Foreshadowing
When you look into the future for possible dangers, name a person, place, or thing and roll+INT. On a 10+, the GM will tell you two things from the list below. On a 7-9, only one. On a miss, the GM will tell you one anyway, but also something else that is not true. Which one is which you will have to divine for yourself.
·The nature of a danger (its type and impulse) that threatens the subject or that the subject is part of.
·One grim portent, related to the subject, that is yet to occur.
·One stakes question related to the subject.
·What kind of threat the subject is.
Accurate Prediction
When you parley with someone whose futures you have prophesied, on a 10-11, the GM will tell you how your deal will affect them in the future. On a 12+, you say how your deal will affect them in the future.
Omens of the Future
When you spend a few hours interpreting omens, say what you desire most, and the omens will show you a way it can be achieved. Take +1 forward if you act on this information, until you consult the omens again.
The Golden Path
Replaces: Omens of the Future
When you spend a few hours interpreting omens, describe an event or state of things that has not yet come to pass, and the omens will show you a way this event or state can be achieved, if it is possible. Take +1 forward if you act on this information, even if you are thwarting the event, until you consult the omens again.
Great discussion! I like the idea of several players each uttering one part of the prophecy. I also like Johnstone’s moves. At the risk of reiterating what others have said, I’ll post my ideas even though I haven’t studied the posts above too well. I just want to get them out and hopefully they’ll be worth your time:
Prophesies with costs: This will happen unless you stop it, but if you stop it, this will happen… This would probably be best used only narratively, where options are given, and choices are made without dice being rolled. For example, there’s uncertainty or debate about which system should be warned first about the approaching Regulae Swarm. The Sensitive character could at least spell out the cost and benefits of each choice more clearly.
What about seeing the present? Re: Like when Paul saw the Saudukar legions in orbit around Arrakis. But, while it may be an unwelcome truth, it’s mitigated because the vision enables them to do something about it, exposing a Front and giving an avenue to derail it which would otherwise have been impossible.
Yeah, those are good examples. Absolute statements tend to remove agency from players, but chains of causality can lead to interesting dilemmas. If X event happens, it will lead to Y event. X event will occur, unless Y event happens to prevent it.
Forecast Immediate Future
When you look into the immediate future turn the two-minute hourglass upside down.
When the hourglass is empty go back in time and replay. Use your recently acquired knowledge as you see fit.
The DW moves I mentioned earlier:
ROLL THE BONES
When you have no AUGURIES and perform a divination, roll 5d6 and record their individual results below. Each of these is an augury. When you would roll 2d6 for a move while you have any auguries, don’t roll. Instead, pick an augury and add 1d6 to it. Treat that as your roll for the move. Then erase that Augury.
AUGURIES: __ __ __ __ __
HEED THE SIGNS
Requires: Roll the Bones, level 6+
When you have an AUGURY that is a 5 or 6, you can erase it to declare that all that has happened since the last player rolled a move (and a few moments before that) has not yet occurred. Rather, you have foreseen it! It’s now moments before those events unfurl, with just enough time for you to do something about it. If you fail to intervene, events will follow the course you foresaw.
Jeremy Strandberg, the idea behind HEED THE SIGNS is exactly the same as my “Forecast Immediate Future.” I find this travel-in-time effect fascinating.
Pedro Pablo Calvo yeah, I’ve no idea how well it would work in actual play, but I agree it’s an interesting idea.
The reason I went with “rewind to just before the last move was rolled” (instead of some other point, or even something like your 2-minutes-real-time counter) was to limit the number of decision points, resource expenditures, etc. that needed to be tracked and undone.
Yes, +Jeremy Strandberg. My move was just the distillation of this idea about playing for exploring and then rewinding to execute.
I love the flavor of fortune telling, but anything that puts the GM into “this will happen” bondage is likely to be off-putting, particularly for GMs who are new to narrative and/or co-operative storytelling. I would lean towards making it more “possibilities and parallel universes,” with perhaps a mechanic of Data Points to be gained on good rolls (and possibly mental debilities on bad ones – peering into the crystal ball of possibilities can be maddening. Or should be. 😉 )
Sean Gomes Stars Without Number (free) has a whole selection of Precog powers. I really like the way Alternate Outcomes works:
“When the psychic fails an attack roll, saving throw, or skill check
she can immediately trigger this power to gain a second attempt at
the roll. Th is last-minute aversion destabilizes future probabilities,
however, and the precog must voluntarily reroll a successful attack
roll, saving throw, or skill check before she can activate this power a
second time. Rerolling a trivial success is not normally suffi cient to
rectify the probability debt.”