Alternatives to XP
I’ve been thinking a lot about XP recently. Thing is, I just don’t think I like it.
In the trad RPGs I’ve GMd it has been the first thing to be houseruled – I really prefer a Time=XP system where everyone is on the same journey and levels up together.
Am I right in saying there is a trend in modern/indie RPGs towards using XP to direct players into a single mode of play (e.g. Urban Shadows awarding XP for faction moves)? The Failure = XP system of DW and MH isn’t quite like this though.
Can this end up overly perscriptive? My favourite thing about TTRPGs in the fun players find in ways ways designers (and GMs) do not foresee. I’m not a fan of punishing players with no progression for not engaging with a narrow XP mechanic, however it definitely works some of these games, particularly short fast-moving campaigns.
I’ve been wondering this for my own homebrew horror hack. I am deeply tempted to do away with an XP track altogether and do progression narratively, but I’m interested in know what folk have seen and tried.
What are you favourite XP mechanics? Are there examples of an open narrative-driven advancement system? Are there times you have houseruled your own XP system into a PBtA game?
Letting people take an advance every substantial session or two is always fair.
Paging Mark Diaz Truman
Same as above. “Hey, I want this campaign to run for 10 months and progress from levels 1 through 10. Thus, advance at the start of each month.” If you really need incentives for hitting flags or resolving bonds or whatever, restore hp or something.
Yes, XP is a tool to use for certain effects, not a mandatory requirement for every game.
Dumped XP years ago, just announce levels based on the story progression and appropriateness. Players have no problems with this.
I like xp as a reward for acting in the way the game wants you to act.
As a GM, I like the convenience of just saying, “yeah, session over, you all level up.” As a player and a designer, though, I like XP mechanics that encourage players to do something that reinforces desirable behavior – but really only when I agree with the game’s designer about what “desirable behavior” is for a game.
So, Dungeon World, Monster of the Week? XP on fail, which encourages risk taking, which is perfect for stories of daring adventurers and doomed monster hunters. I love it. It’s especially handy in a system where every roll invites at least some risk (as its the case on anything less than a 10 in those games), and cautious players might be shy about doing anything at all for fear of triggering a roll that could invite disaster.
Lady Blackbird’s system of “keys” (based on The Shadow of Yesterday) is another clever one. Get XP when you engage in a behavior especially characteristic of some element of your personality – but earn even more XP when you go against that and foreswear that part of yourself, leaving it behind. Encourages you to pay to type, but also to grow and change. Excellent for romantic, melodramatic adventure.
The corruption advancement system in Urban Shadows is another one I absolutely love. Mark corruption when you give in to your darkest impulses, true to the urban fantasy/horror genre – when a wizard makes a terrible bargain for power, a vampire feeds on the unwilling, the hunter pushes away those who make them human.
Consider the contrast, too, between oldschool D&D “1 gold = 1 XP” and newer D&D giving XP for defeating enemies in “encounters.” The former encourages players to go into risky places but be clever about robbing enemies with as little personal risk (and thus as little combat) as possible. The latter encourages players to maximize their strategic and tactical effectiveness in combat, taking on increasingly dangerous foes as they grow in power. Both fine for what they’re shooting for, but very different kinds of encouragement.
I don’t think just being deliberate about it is enough in itself – I think it really only works when you reinforce something central to the game. Numenera, for instance, gives XP when you let the GM screw over your character, but that doesn’t really feel to me like it has any particular fit in that setting. It’s not like there’s a “bad luck” theme or anything in the Ninth World. (And that’s without even the satisfaction of somehow reflecting or reinforcing something in your character, as you get from a “compel” in Fate or a key in Lady Blackbird.) And while I love corruption in Urban Shadows, the faction marking system didn’t work for us quite as well – players felt forced rather than encouraged to do this thing that emulates some stories in the genre better than others. (“I have to visit every supernatural faction, and I’m on a clock!” is very much part of The Dresden Files, but less characteristic of stories my players are more familiar with.)
I don’t necessarily think every RPG needs such a deliberate advancement system, but I do think some games are especially poorly served by advancement mechanics that disagree with narrative explanations for advancement. It always bothered me that In Nomine XP is mostly based on just showing up to a session, and applies equally to personal improvement (like boosting your own skills) and rewards from superiors (who, the game tells you, are stingy and reward based on performance on missions).
That’s a lot of words to spill when the time;dr version really is “leveling up as a group evrty session or so is fine I guess.” I mean, it is fine. But I’ve enjoyed other systems better. I like not having to ever ask, “why am I even on this adventure? Why would I do this?” I like when the system reflects and reinforces the kind of story you want to end up with.
Progression and advancement are also not mandatory!
Yikes, the danger of writing on my iPad – harder to tell how long winded I am! 😬
yeah, there’s definitely a spectrum of how games handle the relationship of advancement and player action. some games have no advancement, some games reward players for showing up, some reward for only very specific things, some for being good actors in their portrayals.
they tend to create different sorts of feeling at the table, so it’s totally reasonable to be in the mood for something different at different times and to have preferences
To me as a new GM with inexperienced players, XP is a must to reward proactivity and action.
It really depends on the game. Undying has no XPs nor level/ability advancement and it’s addictive anyway.
I see advancement as a mechanic tool, so I prefer not to tie it with anything individual, because at some point players will feel punished when some players got more XP than other and hence their characters are more powerful or get more options. Whatever.
I prefer group XP, so every character got the same power level.
And, to encourage some actions, I prefer to use other mechanics like drama points.
I like advancing systems where you actually don’t see XP anywhere because they’re ingrained in the fiction:
– WiP has a move “Push” that lets you force your powers beyond what’s usual and you can end up mastering it and adding to your sheet. That is advancement. Meaningful advancement tied to the in-game fiction being told. I enjoy that much more than 5XP, raise your endurance by 1.
– Undying has already been mentioned and XP-less, but you do can advance. The meanings of advance in that game are Status and the amount of Debts owed to you, which are part of the fiction. You are not powerful because time passes or because you did something and are now stronger or wiser. You are more powerful because the state of the game being played points at you as the most influential predator in the city. By the way, that power could wane as fast as it came. And then there is Humanity… trade power for your soul whenever you character goes that way, not when you have enough XP.
Dogs in the Vineyard has a really interesting advancement system, that doesn’t just shape behaviour, but development as well, making a statement about the nature of learning.
Alas, I don’t think I have the time to do a write-up justice with the time I have right now.
When I was designing Threadbare, I eventually did away with xp because advancement is “make myself harder to die, and get myself new abilities.” I realized that the body part mechanics accomplished both of those actions without needing to add another tracker for xp. By not having that, there’s also a kind of timelessness to Threadbare characters, and people often play like they live “in the now.”
Horror protagonists don’t usually “level up” in the way that say a Luke Skywalker or a D&D hero does. It might be cool to make “experience” a double-edged sword; any gain in influence comes with some terrible cost (the madness that comes with knowing The Lovecraftian Truth About the Universe™, the emotional distance and lingering trauma that comes from being a survivor from a previous slasher incident, the creeping influence of vampirism that also allows Mina to track Dracula, etc)
Jason Tocci Regarding US specifically, some of it is in how you play, I think? Because cashing in/gaining debt counts as a faction move, and my GM requires that there be at least one PC from each faction, the advancement mechanic pushed us to interact with each other, to use debt alot, in ways that moved the story forward and kept us together. These are things that otherwise would be challenging in US, I think.
Jesse Abelman Absolutely – I know many other groups have an easier time of the faction advancement system in Urban Shadows than we had. (And I know of others that had the same issue we did, so I know it’s not just us, or I wouldn’t have mentioned it.) I know that group did a lot “wrong,” counter to the expectations of the game as implied by that advancement system, but I personally think the advancement system itself could be more persuasive and less rigid in nudging you in that direction.
I’ve read lots of house rules suggested to address this, but here’s an example of what I mean: Corruption moves (and XP moves in every other PbtA game I can think of offhand) see you marking your advancement track every single time you trigger the move. Faction moves don’t do that, so my players felt like they were “wasting” effort on moves that behaved inconsistently. If you could still advance by marking a certain number of faction moves without necessarily hitting every single faction, but this prompted the MC to automatically advance any neglected faction’s clock, then that would’ve felt to my players like strong encouragement (like other advancement systems feel) rather than a straitjacket.
I don’t mean to litigate whether Urban Shadows “works” – obviously it works great for plenty of groups (and we liked other rules in the game very much). I suspect this all says something about my personal philosophy of advancement mechanics, though, rather than a universal design maxim.
So many good examples here, ty